the moral atheist

or any of the other damn schismatics from the one church of Jesus Christ. (note well: JK!)

 

smlchance..

Is it not your 'church of jesus christ'
That are the damn splitters?
IE..It..'evolved through natural selection into the
niche it now occupies.'

Also occam has no need to convince you "we are not one".
Think of something.
Anyone else in there thinking with you?
No..
Could you have imagined occam?..no..he asks questions you
cannot ask because you do not have the 'information'
to ask them.

Occam exists...if you dont..thats your problem.

Occam

 

actually if I don't exist it's YOUR problem cause you're talkin to yourself!!! I can't be sure you don't actually only exist in the dream world I have created. Neither can I actually be sure that my thoughts aren't just the extension of some greater mystical being.

I"m not totally serious w/that church comment. I actually belong to the Church of Christ w/o the Body of Christ, which is a spinnoff from a fictional chruch created by Flannery O'Connor. ("Wise Blood") I baptized in and believe completely in the Catholic Church and IN Jesus and in the Eucharist. But God has shown us all that the Catholic Church isn't mandatory and neither is the Eucharist. But w/o Jesus, we'd all be living and dying in hell. It would be a world w/o love. W/o physical proof of DIVINE LOVE and the manifestation of the eternal in Time (viz: the Shroud of Turin).

GOod luck OCCAM, I'm sure you are an honest bloke. (Unless you're a female). But if simplicity is the golden rule, you'd do well to drop the third person schtick, UNLESS you really are the reincanated voice of the good sir William of Occam (isn't that his CHRISTIAN name, right?)

cheers.

 

Smlchance..

From "religioustolerance.org"
"There are 19 major world religions divided into 270 large religious groups.
There are 34 THOUSAND individual christian groups alone"

Just pointing out that There are 34000 ways to follow jesus...
If you christians cant even believe eachother..
Why would occam be silly enough to believe in something
as absurd as hell?
-----------------------------

Obviously you are stuck on the 'occam' thing like so many
before you..
Do you usually pass the time by telling other people how to talk?
Whats next?
How to dress?
How to act?
WHAT TO BELIEVE?

Occam

 

I do apologize a lot.

Wanna know what's really funny and a perfectly understandable reason to doubt Jesus and everything he ever said? ...(there's way more than one but this is the best). ...

... His prayer in John 16 which is the longest thing he is recorded as saying is a prayer for....guess what....
comon....
guess....
....
UNITY...

hahahahaha isn't that funny? There's no two Christians alike and the last and longest prayer of Jesus in the bible wsa for Unity. wtf?

hoooo hooooohooooohooooooo that is a RIOT.

no shit.

 

Here's your answer. Religious people do what they're told is right where as a moral athiest like myself does what's right because I'm intelligent enough to know right from wrong in my heart, not because I fear burning in a hell which in my belief doesn't exist anyway.

 

You have more integrity than someone who acts 'good' for the sake of some reward. I'm sure there's something like a hell but it's probly just etrenal ignorance. Eternal oblivion won't be so bad, though, hey?

 

Actually I either believe there's nothing after death which means you don't exist to notice any bright light, pits of fire, or emptiness. On the other hand I kind of believe in reincarnation, but however I got that beleif, I think of it as more of an instant transfer because I often find myself referring to the past life that I "know" of or saying thing slike "maybe in the next life..."

 

Smlchance

Hey..no worries..

Occam thinks jesus was a great man..He certainly changed history
It's the damn little tinpot hitlers that came after him that stole his name
and dogmatised his teaching.

Occam is pretty sure..in fact..certain..that jesus would blow his top
if he found out the 'christian church' was telling everyone that they will burn forever if they step out of line.
In fact..occam can hear the words ring in eternity...

They WHAT!!!!

Occam

 

Winters ashes

Thank you for postulating what occam calls the 'good man' scenerio.

A man acts in all ways that define him as good by the tenets of a church..

Yet the man declares his actions are derived from a self realised
code of ethics and morals based on a fusion of knows codes and
a synergy of heart and mind..

According to that church..he will go to hell..
Even if ALL HIS ACTIONS ARE GOOD.

God must be really stupid.**

Occam

**That is..the one religion describes.

 

In an athiest/agnostic chatroom named jesus sucks I used to frequent, a christain said they would feel free to kill if they didn't believe in god and wanted to know why we didn't feel that way. We said it was simple right from wrong, killing is wrong therefore we don't do it. We have morals...

 

i considered that.. that a person could feel free to kill and rape and anything else, once freed of their ruling God.
i think a nontheist community would rely much more on individual responsibility and intellect, then; i was reading an article on microbial 'language' or their huge ability to communicate and act as a group....
"...the study also throws light on one of the classic puzzles of evolutionary biology - why cooperation between individuals persists despite the potential threat from freeloaders." [M.Buchanan,Cambridge]

the thing is, from an evolutionary perspective, the individuals in a society that feel free to randomly kill or otherwise decrease or weaken the population lead in the end to their own destruction. cooperation is essential for a community to continue to exist, and as far as microbes go, there seems to be evolved ways to preserve cooperation and weed out the weakeners.

so i was thinking about this in regards to humans... little is known about the world of microbial communication and how they police themselves against inside threats, but in humans, maybe that's what religion is - an evolved method to aid in group cohesion and thereby preserve the community's existence. so is religion on the way out? are humans evolving past the need for religious rule and heading into intellectual rule, or something else?

i found an article while i was looking for information on hypnosis that discusses religion from an evolutionary perspective, if you have any interest: http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/music.html , i know people hate it when you post links to long frinkin' essays.

..
i have, btw, been reading this thread with interest, since i started it, but not responding since there seems to be enough to read from people well past my own thinking capacity to even bother adding..... lol


sophia

 

As a hypnotherapist, I can see the hypnotic techniques used in churches. If the congregations only knew how their minds were being manipulated, they'd flip right out!
I last night read an article in Nexus that predicts the end of the catholic and christian religions. He says that the catholic clergy will be murdered in the streets because of the way they've deceived the world for so long.
The article is from books <The Henoc Prophecies> written by this guy ~
http://www.billymeier.com/

 

Hmm, maybe I haven't gathered the real point to your question... but to me, it sounds as if you're looking too much into atheism as if it is a religion, when it's really not.
Atheism isn't a community or organization like religions are... it simply means you don't believe an existence of a god, or an afterlife. With that said, of course atheist to atheist we may disagree what's right and wrong... though, someone may be atheist, does not imply that they do not have a conscience. Every human does. The real picture of atheism is that we DON'T have a set of rules we live by, but rather we act accordingly to what we, ourselves, believe is right or wrong... For instance, I believe that lying is just..wrong in itself because it hurts the people around you, but ask another atheist, and they may disagree... and it's okay for them to disagree BECAUSE atheism isn't a religion with a set of rules to live by.
I don't believe that certain things are wrong because if I do them I'll be damned or that a god will shun me for it, I believe certain things are wrong, because we are all on this earth together and should treat each other with respect...the point is everyone is going to have different views on what IS right and what IS wrong... and that's the whole idea of atheism... it's open minded, allowing everyone to have their own beliefs. If someone says rape is wrong, and another say it's okay... Well the majority of people would disagree with the person that says it's okay, but that does not imply that the person does or does not believe in god.

I don't know, I think I may have just not understood what you were getting at...but to put it simply, atheists CAN'T organize or conform, because it's an open-ended way of thinking and believing...

 

I agree fully.. i am a a 'none believer' and am as flawed as EVERYONE .. i have a 'morale' compass and divert from it know and again .. to me the whole concept of believing or none believing is a huge waste of time.even just saying it is a waste of time was a waste of time etc etc .. *leaves*

 

lol matthew, I suppose I agree to a point... I agree with your theory, but being a waste of time isn't exactly how I feel. Talking about it can only result in broadening your band of knowledge...and being subjected to new ideas from believers and non-believers can only further open your mind to the world around you. I personally love talking about it <3

 

Yeah i am all for discusing things with other human beings.. but for me 'god' is unproductive and a stale arguement.like you say we all have diffrent perspectives and moralities etc .. so realy it is only personal interpretation of a given text that people are working from .. Then you get the the diffrent inerpretations of the message .. Come on people have been discussing and argueing about this for thousands of years..it about time people stopped . Would our minds seize up and we would not be able to function with out the oil of religeon ?... no imho i don't think so.

I am only holding a firm ground on my point to see what you think..so realy i suppose i agree to a certain extent.

 

well, I suppose you're right if you look at it that way.
of course nothing will ever be solved; though relating to people and disagreeing with people is what makes the world go round.

not to sound like a dumbass but what the hell does "imho" mean? i'm sorry i'm a bit computer lingo illiterate.

 

I thought money made the world go round ?

It means In my humble opinion..basicaly whan you make a grandious statement based on your own opinion that somewhat may mock or otherwise pour scorn on the persons (who you are answering) point, you are instantly forgiven. Well thats what some one told me anyway ?.

 

okay thank you, lol...
im not a bitch who's easily offended by another's opinion...it's just another person's opinion, and should be accepted... imho you dont have to imho me. lol... i suck with words... AH.