Do your believe it's right to buy/sell pets?

It's the second meanest as you can get.

The meanest is when you DON'T neuter a pet that you plan on letting run loose, then either smash the heads of the offspring or leaving them on a box on the side of the road and hoping someone will pick them up. That's what happens in rural places like here and that's why I completely support and wish they would require all pets to be spayed or neutered that aren't going to be bred.

 

Good point dhs. Also there is nothing natural about dogs and cats being domesticated. We made them that way. So now we have to take responsibility for the situation. They need loving homes......all of them. And they need to being properly taken care of and respected. They aren't wild animals and could not thrive as such. There are other threads that discuss spaying and neutering so I won't go into that again........so um yeah......what was my point?

 

Why buy a pet from a breeder or store when they are hundres of pets dying in shelters all the time.
Just because is pure breed and it's a puppy and it looks cute??
Nahhhh.
They all need a chance.
Plus, those who support buying or selling pets should find out more about how breeders "really" treat those poor animals...


100% against it!



Fer

 

why we need pets anyway,cause we love them?

we actually keep pets 4 own pleasure,

we made animals pet 2 use them

oh of course pets likes us as well

they haven't got other choice,they don't know anything else

it's like a prison guard loves his prisoners so much

ps:i have 2 confess i have a dog

 

Letting an aminal live with you by choice is cool. Adopting strays is cool, too, if they actually want to live with you. But keeping animals in captivity is wrong, and ownership of another sentient being is wrong.

 

I'm getting my pup next year from a reputable breeder. I'm 100% for reputable breeders and animal shelters -- 100% against backyard breeders and puppy mills. Reputable breeders aren't the bad guys -- they breed ONLY for the better of the breed. They use health certifications (Pennhipp, OFA, CERF, BAER, etc), and they breed purebred (we don't need any more breeds!), registered (we need to keep track of what's being bred) dogs with good temperments. If every reputable breeder stoped breeding, all we would have left are the dogs from the bad breeders -- in other words, even if they DO stop breeding and the population is under control (whic it wouldn't be -- seeing as bad breeders are opportunists. Out with the good breeders means more profit for the bad ones. Not to mention reputable breeders have reutrn policies so that their dogs/cats whatever do not end up in shelters) --- we will have no foundation for good breeding left -- only bad breeding. And the animals would suffer even more.


Personally, I hate it when people say "You are "buying" a pet, rather than "adopting?" " What does that mean? If I get a pup from a breeder -- I'm still "adopting" it. It's now my child, my responsiblity. And if I go to an animal shelter, I'm still paying for the animal -- so yes, I'm "buying" it. The animal will need to be paid for it's entire life. You'll never stop "buying" it.

I always say that if I were Queen of the world ( ), I would make a policy about breeding. Every breeder would have to be lisensed, and the license would say the specific rules. Say, for dogs...The dogs must be health certified and clear of any anomolies. They must have atleast a (insert generation here) pedigree. They must be registered. They must be true to the breed. They must be temperment tested. They must participate in some sport (conformation, agility, herding, schutzhund, etc). Any breeder that didn't match my standards would be fined a huuuuge fee. And I would make MANY more animal shelters that help to clean up after the bad breeders that would no longer exist. Pet shops wouldn't be allowed to sell live animals. And owners would need to be certified as well. Also, if the owners were ever found guilty of ANY crime towards animals, they woul never be allowed to have an animal agian. And I'd put them in jail LOL. I think many animal shelters need their rules revised as well. My local animal shelter, for instance. They say that they help control the overpopulation, but what do they do? They breed the animals, kill the parents and sell the babies. It's surprising how many shelters do this. Not to mention the insane amount of shelters that sell the bodies to dog and cat food companies to be added to the feed. Cheap source of protien. Huge corporations. Small amount of rules. What can you do???

It would really help if SOMEONE had the power to make rules. Well we all know there is someone...Someone who obviously doesn't care... All we want is a strong, healthy, sound, population of dogs, right?

I find it unfortunate that the vast majority of the public is misinformed about pet shops and backyard breeders. Really sad. One day I am going to make a monthly newsletter and spread the word.

 

l only ever buy a pet from the pound...

 

i would rather buy a dog or animal from a shelter or someone who is giving their away becuz its better. even though both my dogs were bought a pet stores thats only becuz one we just loved her and didnt mean to get a dog the opther one we just lost a dog and went to look for another and my sister found him and they bought him but i wanted a dog from a pound. i think its ok to buy/sell animals if you are treating them w/ care adn respect. only buy an animal if you are willing to take care of him/her and lover him/her and have respect for 'em.

 

The whole idea of playing God and controlling breeds just perpetuates the idea that we can do whatever we please to animals. They exist on Earth only to please us. It's bullshit. What you're really doing is desperately trying to fill some empty void in your soul by buying a captive creature and keeping it in captivity for all its life. You can't find a real soul connection with a human, so you seek it out, be it consciously or subconsciously, from a captive and submissive animal. Don't give me this "good breeder bad breeder" shit. Yes, some are much worse than others, but it's all sick sadistic bullshit.

 

Personally, I hate it when people say "You are "buying" a pet, rather than "adopting?" " What does that mean? If I get a pup from a breeder -- I'm still "adopting" it. It's now my child, my responsiblity. And if I go to an animal shelter, I'm still paying for the animal -- so yes, I'm "buying" it. The animal will need to be paid for it's entire life. You'll never stop "buying" it.

I think it is because of the motives behind the 'purchase' and also because of the impact it has on the animals....

When someone buys an animal from a breeder (a good one or bad one it doesnt make any difference)- the action is like the purchase of a commodity.... WHY are you getting a dog from a breeder and not saving a dog from death at the pound?
Because of its 'breed'? Because of vanity? Because it is cute? It looks the way you want it to? That is like the reasons for buying a new coat or a toy, status symbol etc.....not the reason most people adopt an animal from a shelter- people choose shelters because they want to save an animal and do something good in the world....which is totally different from the uttermost selfish reason of "having to have a certain breed because you want it"

i think "buying" pets from breeders ANY BREEDER is horrible, i just don't understand how people can go and purchase an animal when there are millions being killed every year because no one will give them a home.

 

That says it all.

What if the question were "Is it ok to breed/buy/sell humans?" To me, the implications are the same. But most people don't value non-human life as highly as I do.

 

My motives would be the same either way. And it really does make a difference when buying from a good or bad breeder. When buying from a bad breeder, you are supporting what they are doing -- which is most often breeding for profit. A reputable breeder never makes a profit -- infact, they don't even break even. Backyard breeders generally don't have a return policy on their puppies -- so they can end up in shelters. Reputable breeders have return policies to ensure their puppies never end up in a shelter. They also have spay/neuter policies on pets.

Tell me -- if there weren't any animal shelters, where would you get a dog??? If breeding is so wrong...

I believe that since people screwed up dogs in the first place, it is only right to fix them. That is why I agree with reputable breeding. Reputable breeders ONLY breed to better the breed. That is what makes a reputable breeder.

My mom's bf is adopting from a shelter -- and he is not doing it to "save a life" (the shelter here is now no-kill anyways, so no life would be saved). HE'S doing it because he wants the specific breed -- a border collie -- infact, I know more people in RL that buy from a shelter for a specific breed rather than because they find a dog they like. Maybe it's just my area. So not EVERYONE adopts from a shelter to save a life. It would be hard to at a no-kill shelter anyways. There are no more kill shelters in my province.

I choose not to go to a shelter for my first dog for many reasons. Yes I do want this specific breed. I could get it in a shelter, but the chances of me finding a shelter that has a catahoula puppy in it is low. Plus no shelters in my province ever have this breed. I don't want this breed because it's "cute" . I want this breed for it's personality -- seeing as my lifestyle and home can be suited to few breeds, and this is one of them.. I cant travel outside of my country to GET one from a shelter. I REFUSE to buy from my province's animal shelter because in the past, they "saved" dogs from a puppy mill, only to breed them themselves. Then they killed the parents and sold the puppies. They are a no-kill shelter now though (still refuse to buy from them -- the same employees work there and see nothing wrong with what they did. I don't support that), so by adopting a dog I would not be saving it's life.

There are many other reasons I'm going to a reputable breeder. After my first dog, I will hopefully be able to adopt from the catahoula rescue (at that point it will be easy for me to go to the states -- it will be years later). And I'm getting the breed for several reasons as well. I need a dog with a smooth coat. Being a dog groomer, you don't want to come home at the end of the day to brush a long fluffy coat. Even though I think long fluffy coats are prettier. "Prettier" doesn't matter to me. I would like a breed that offers a challenge. So, preferably a dog with middle-of-the-road or a dominant personality. I need a good farm dog, as I'm going to be living on a small farm (he needs to be a good house dog too, but that is all in the training). So obviously I can't go out and get a toy poodle -- unless a toy poodle is good at baying livestock. A dog that will do well in conformation (Cant get a conformation dog in a shelter -- my first dog will be competing -- my rescue dog won't), obedience, treeing, baying, agility, schutzhund, flying disc, dock diving, musical freestyle...Possibly flyball, I'm not sure yet. So obviously it wouldn't be practical of me to get a short-nosed breed that doesn't do well in sports due to their short airways. They would overheat quickly and possibly die. I couldn't put a golden retriever in schutzhund. You need a dog with some aggressive working drive. It wouldn't be right to get a great dane or other giant breed, because I would like a jogging companion and I want to start agility as soon as the dog is done it's primary growth. And no, I'm not doing dog sports because I would like a "status symbol." I'm doing them because they are fun, they are good exersise, they are healthy for both you and your dog, they are a great hobby, and they provide wonderful socialization to your dog.

If I wanted a dog because it was "cute" or because I'm vain...I would get a stuffed animal. That is all that is out there for people that buy a dog for looks. You never know what you are going get. Which brings up a very good point. Breeds are good because you can generally predict what you are going to get -- as long as you do your research. If there were no breeds, people would get a dog, realise it isn't for them, dump that dog and get something else. For instance -- a catahoula is awesome for me -- a golden retriever would drive me INSANE. It is all in the instincts of the breed for what is was first bred to do. People are different because we don't maintain most of our really old instincts -- that's why you can't compare a race to a breed. Races weren't bred to do specific things. Breeds were and are. Meaning, if I don't want a dog that will be non-stop with balls and sticks, I won't get a retriever. If I don't want a dog that will drag me out of the water, I won't get a Newfoundland. MANY people are allergic to dogs- - I would never recommend that they go out there and buy whatever dog they can find. They'd need something different -- maybe, a poodle, or a maltese. Something with their specific needs.

Yes, you can definatly find a purebred dog in an animal shelter -- 25% of dogs in shelters are purebred. And I totally encourage people to rescue before going to a breeder. I've done rescue work, and I'll continue doing rescue work. I'm goign to own my own animal shelter one day hopefully -- though next year I'm starting out with a "misunderstood breed rescue." Mutts are awesome too -- it's very difficult to know what they will be like when adults, while they are still puppies however (the reason I don't agree with breeding them). So I would prefer to either adopt a purebred puppy or a full-grown mutt. I do prefer to get my dogs as puppies because I enjoy working with them -- taking them to obedience classes and watching them grow up. It's lots of very hard work, but it is so much fun (I'm the oppisite with children -- I hope to foster some older children).

Remember there are many reasons people go to a reputable breeder...I have a friend that is doing it because she has had health problems with previous dogs that she adopted. She will definatly have a better chance with good health when getting a dog from a reputable breeder (I'm encouraging her to change the diet though, as I feel this plays almost as big a role than genetics). I have another friend that doesn't have any animal shelters in her area and she can't travel. I know someone that wants to raise their own guide dog and they want a specific breed, bred for the temperment that is proper to be a guide dog.

Sometimes when I look at what backyard breeders and puppy mills have done...all I can say is "screw it." They've done what they've done, and everyone is suffering for it. No one will take a stand and make limits. No one will make harsher laws and punishments. Dogs are doomed forever due to people who truly don't understand or don't care.

 

While a bit off track...I also think there should be specific rules when people have children. We are having an overpopulation problem too. If it were up to me, people with genetic problems wouldn't be having children. People who wanted to have children would be checked for problems that could be passed on. I hate it when people complain that they have some disease and they are so worried that they are going to pass it on to their children -- the solution is simple -- don't have kids.

 

And here is something that shows us that reputable breeders never make a profit.

"quote -- That's how come purebred Rat Terriers go for $875 in Canada for pet quality. You can't tell me that a littler of 8 at $875+ a piece 'just covers food and needles...' "

"Okay, let's see. $875 times 8 is $7000. Both dam and sire should be health certitified before breeding.
Hips - $30
Elbows - $25
Thyroid - $15
Heart - $15
Patellar Luxation - $15
Deafness- $15
Eyes - $17.50 (because initial registration)
That is $132.50 .

Tests for Brucellosis (disease of reproductive tract) and Bortedella (STD) - $60

$40 to submit DNA test results to AKC. DNA test - $15

Solid Gold vitamins for bitch - $40

Stud fee for a Champion dog can be as high as $2000. Let's say $1000.

Bitch must go to the vet at around day 30. Alot of breeders like to use an ultrasound--another $200.

$1000 should be put aside for an emergency C-section.

At around day 50, you have to take days off of work to be around the expentant mother 24/7 to make sure nothing goes wrong. If you have a 9-5 job and an hourly wage of $15, you will lose around $1500. Then you have to stay with the dog and puppies until the puppies go home. 8 weeks - $6720

At 3 days, the puppies will need their first vet check, and the mother will need a check too. Each puppy will get dewclaws removed ($50 per puppy -- for 8 puppies that's $400). Rat terriers have their tails docked ($10.00 per tail, that's $80). Vaccination for eight puppies, $70 each, is $560. Deworming - $400. Puppies may need to be tested for skin problems, coccidia, and parvo -- $1000.

The breeder will need supplies before all of this happens. Whelping box, whelping box heating pad, incubator, weight scale, indoor puppy pen, first aid, emergency supplies, dishes. About $1000.

Food to feed puppies for two weeks - $40.

Registration fees for AKC - $400

Puppy kit to be sent home with new owner - $20 per puppy, $160 for 8 puppies.
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Add that all up. That's $14747.50 . This hypothetical breeder just lost $7747.50 . And I didn't even cover the cost of DNA tests for the puppies, the hundreds and thousands of dollars to enter shows, the hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of training your dogs for shows (conformation, agility, etc), and alot of other valuable things that should be done when breeding. Alot of things things are fairly lenient when breeding, but most of them are incredibly important. "

 

bitch better have my money.

 

seriously though, this thread is retarded.

 

"Tell me -- if there weren't any animal shelters, where would you get a dog???"

I wouldn’t. I don’t believe in breeding animals like they are nothing more commodities, slaves, 'things'. The only reason we had dogs in my house, is to help them, not for our own benefit. They have all been strays or unwanted dogs. While they helped us a lot, we would be fine without them, so no I wouldn’t be going to a breeder to buy a dog.

"My mom's bf is adopting from a shelter -- and he is not doing it to "save a life" (the shelter here is now no-kill anyways, so no life would be saved)"

Adopting from no kill shelters still saves lives; unwanted animals are routinely turned away from no kill shelters because the no kill shelters can't take anymore in. The animals that are turned away are usually taken to the pound and killed. I used to volunteer at a no kill shelter and it was bursting at the seams, with a 3 month long waiting list - of animals waiting to be allowed in. SO YES IT DOES SAVE LIVES

As for saying diet plays almost a bigger part as genetics, of course it does to say teh least, eating crap food makes people and animals sick….. Feeding any animal commercial processed food will cause them to have health problems

Describing what kind of dog u want…a farm dog, short coat etc you should be able to find one that fits this at a shelter easily…damn easily. So don’t bother lying to me about how you just have t have a certain breed and no other dog will be good enough for you.

Yes I think 'having to have a certain breed' is selfish beyond doubt. You don’t really care about the dog, dogs or animals in general, you just care about you. If you truly cared about the dog, dogs or animals in general, more so than your selfish desires to have a particular breed you would adopt one from a shelter.


I don’t care how much money a breeder spends…speeding a lot of money on something doesn’t make it any more ethical.

 

If you want a dog only as a pet, as a companion animal, I guess I agree with Clawsy that buying one from a breeder is not necessary. There are many different dogs in shelters (also sorta depending on how much choice you have of course, a small town will have fewer shelters than a big city) but I'm sure you can find a rescue that's well-suited.

However, I also agree with Catahoula, if you want a working dog, it makes lots of sense to buy one from a breeder! There are sheep dogs, guard dogs, hunting dogs, and those were originally bred for other reasons than just looks. And quite often it is important to train a dog when he's still young, rather than taking an older dog with who-knows-what kind of background.

 

I would like to say, as A BREEDER, not a puppy factory, that I see no wrong in it. It has been that way for thousands of yrs.
I feel if someone pays top money for a pet and they can see their parents and their enviroment, and they want a certain type of breed. That they will take care of said pet. I would not pay 300$ for an amimal and then miss treat it or starve it. That pet would be caried on a pillow and treated like royalty.
I would like to see the parents and the vets remarks on an animal before I purchace one. I want papers. I would want to take a chance on an animal from a shelter because I don't know the history of the animal. There are so many inherited diseases now days with animals(dogs) disc disease, joint disease, blindness, deafness. Mean Spirited, chicken killers. Just all kinds of problems. That can lead to hundreds, ever thousands of dollars in vet bills.
Yes I sell my puppies. I sell them with a clean bill of health and papers to prove it. The money I get from the pups, provide the funds to keep my dogs healthy with vet visits and nutritional food, and repairs to the kennels. WE love our animals. We also raise calves, goats, chickens, turkeys, rabbits and Cockatiels. We live on a farm and that's what farmers do is raise animals and farm the land.
I usually have my pups sold before their parents have been bread, to people I know will give them good homes. I'm not large scale and dont plan to be. It's hard work and takes times and money to keep a clean kennel. The pups pay for the money that is invested. We usually break even.
Ohh and btw, if anyone has had a dog that has had puppies, then you are a breeder.
I think spay and nutering dog is cruel. They are doing what comes natural. Dogs get fat and lazy when 'fixed'. This is not good for the animals health. They also get gripie and become short temperd, which is understandable since you just casterated them.I'd be pissed too.
Living on a farm as we do we also get our share of 'drop offs', people think, ohh here's a farm the dogs would love to live on a farm. Then they drop off their 'usually city dog' that kills our chickens and turkeys and baby pigmy goats. So we get both ends of the show.

 

I have to disagree with this...Spaying and neutering is alot healthier. It's virtually eliminates cancer risks and pyometra. The reason dogs can become overweight is because they now have a lower calorie need. People make the mistake of feeding them the same amount of food after they are fixed. They are also not lazy -- they just don't want to go out and "roam" more. Dogs only become fat and lazy from too much food and/or a lack of exersise. They shouldn't become short-tempered either because altering cuts their testosterone/estrogen levels -- they become more calm and tolerant of their surroundings.

As I said, there are NO kill shelters in my province -- If they are full, they get a foster home or send to another no-kill shelter. We don't have kill shelters here. They were made illegal a couple of years ago. And our shelter is not bursting at the seams either. Our shelter is stupid -- people come in, and want an animal, and they just sell it to them -- they don't even screen homes. So no wonder we have barely any dogs there.

Really? Tell me where I can find a short coated, dominant working dog, with the specific type of baying ability that I'm looking for, that will do well in conformation. Tell me -- is he guaranteed for health? Is he a puppy? No, of course not. You can find a short coated farm dog. That's about it. That's not what I'm looking for. If I wanted that, I could bloody well go out and get myself a lab. I can't stand labs. If I want to get a pup from a shelter, who knows how it will turn out? If I go ahead and get an adult, who knows how well it will do with livestock? The shelter here doesn't give a shit about screening the dog's behaviour. They only care about the money they make.

Right...I took the time to research breeds because I care about ME. Pft. Having lived with breeds that don't match my personality whatsoever, I can tell you that is is CRUEL and unethical to get a dog that isn't compatible with it's owner. It's unfair to both you and the dog. If you can't provide it with what it needs, what kind of selfish owner are you for keeping that dog? If I really cared abotu dogs, I would not adopt from my shelter -- my shelter is stupid, they are dirty, they are neglectful, they are uncaring -- and you may ask why I wouldn't "save" one -- same reason I wouldn't buy a puppy from a pet shop -- I don't support their business. By buying what they have, I'm only abling them to continue around this track. Until they have better management, I refuse to buy from them. And I CAN'T buy from a shelter outside of my province.