Socailism will save the world....

Hi, saffronfrancisburnet! nice text! I'm also active socialist/communist in Helsinki, Finland. I want to be active somehow across the borders if possible. i mean that, there is this revolutionary element, and different groups are formed and because not united they lose part of their valuable energy. Many times terminology creates problems, like here in these forums too. You get many people to hate you just by saying that you are communist or socialist, but if you say you are anti-globalization, the same people may think that you're on the right track. These old words are difficult because they mean too many different things to different people, like: socialism, anarchism, democracy, proletarian, dictatorship... These words are difficult and in order to use them one needs some level of sophistication. I think this is a weakness of the today's revolutionary movement. We need clear terms which can be reasonably easily understood by all the people, also the people who don't want to read books and dictionaries and study philosophy or politics or ancient languages.. Any real movement of change is a movement of more democracy, movement of people. That means a movement which is not led by guns and by individuals, but by understanding and class-cosciousness. Democracy needs this understanding, the movement needs to be understood, or there is no movement, no revolution. That is needed. At the right time social consciousness and a united movement. Understandable words. And please let there be a lot of hippies involved. A movement should not be one-sided. Social problems need to be taken care of and environmental problems and human rights need to be defenced and why not animal rights too. All the small parts create the whole and all those parts need to be part of the movement when the day comes or there will be something missing. No system is perfect and that's why there must be certain amount of anarchism in every society. Rules need to be disobeyed. One must not think that there is some ending point for the social evolution. Evolution doesn't stop. There is always new problems. But there is always also the mutation: a hippie, an anarchist, a socialist, a primitivist, an environmentalist, an activist etc. But also the bad seeds are probably always there which I will not name here.

 

very true doigenes,,the collective
forms of any people struggling against the capitalists
today should not reform but under the system
but gather all movements of struggle
to allow for change

ie you speak of clear terms
if needed to guide the change
whether we need to view
the peoples ideas which may be right or wrong
in one point of time,

this moves forward a democracy for all
this allows change the force of nature
that we need to follow,

in all the world creates our reality
now,but its not changing we see generation after generation of
struggles for peace for fair wages schooling
health this is in a capitalists world
yet half the world is starving dieing ,due
to the lack of understanding freedom
the change we all see governments fight against,
ie oil gold wood etc
schools hospitals roads food
its every where the politics that is keeping
our standard of living in the balance
with profit......
so
the point that others should not doubt
or misunderstand about
a socialists world united by socialism
over all is to live in a non profit
world ,no rich created by the workers.
no royals to demonstrate how we should bow down
for just being alive,
well ive got news for those who choose
to not understand this
every penny you earn ,has a profit for someone somewhere
in a very high place.....

even starving the worlds poorer work force to
live with wealth ...

thank you for reading my reply diogenes...

i would like to add
once in a working system of socialism
money will not be needed
its easy to understand
like being a child who does not even comprehend
mum dad or who ever pays for food
and all that is needed to live. until
they are taught this system..
its easy to break really.
once the human needs respond
then the ideas will flow...........

lovenpeace from saff

long live life,for all

 

Change towards socialism means a change in people's world view. Social existance determines cosciousness. Today for many it is difficult to see beyond the concept of ownership. It's a concept, exists only in our minds. It doesn't exist in any way anywhere else but in people's minds, and even there it's on the surface, superficial, and that's why nobody can really believe in it, it's a lie. When a mind opens, it is the first thing to go. When just a small trace of light breaks through into one's mind, one sees through the concept of ownership, below the surface.
Jesus said it: it's difficult for the rich man to get into heaven. Also when people are used to own riches they get attached to it, they don't want to admit it although they may see it that they have earned nothing, but they are lucky, they belong to the minority of people, minority that is so used to luxury that they think it's obvious to live that way, they want to make excuses, they say that people need to own or they will be lazy, that people are greedy, unable to share, egoist. But those people don't know the world they live in, nor do they know themselves. For the majority of people, people who don't own anything, it is easier to share the world, they are not used to luxury and excess, they are not attached to ownership, it's easier for them to share what they are not used to consider owning.
Ownership is not real. It is a claim by some people at expence of some other people. It is not right. If there is any right and wrong in the world, it is wrong to claim to own anything. People have needs, as well as all the creatures in nature. People need food, shelter, warmth, water, air.. It's wrong that someone claims to own land. The earth is old. It has been there since ancient times, long before there was any people around. We people are just small creatures, just temporary beings. Everyone of us needs equally what the earth provides for us. When a person claims to own land, he/she actually attempts to enslave another person. When there is people who own and people who don't, the people who don't own are at the mercy of the ones that do. When people don't possess the means for living while others do, these people are at the mercy of those others. One person says to another:"If you want food, water, shelter from the cold, clothes etc, you just need to work for me and I will give you these necessities. If you don't work work for me, you're on your own, I don't care about you, you may starve to death, I don't care as long as I have someone anyway to do the work for me here." That is the nature of our capitalist system. It is playing with life and death, blackmail, bargaining with people's lives, using people as machines, as cattle. Capitalist says he/she defends the freedom. says that private ownership means freedom for the individuals. But capitalism means freedom for the few who own, who win the game of capitalism. In the end there will be winners, those who have it all, and losers, those who have nothing. The losers will not be free in this system, but slaves. And the winners will be the masters of these slaves, dictating everything in the society, the kings in the capitalistic democracies.
We need today to see beyond the borders of our countries to recognize what's going on. Although a person has everything he/she needs, can pay the rent, can buy the food, children may go to school, he/she may nevertheless belong to the same social class as another person in another country who doesn't have the same possibilities. I don't own anything but some clothes and some books and have debt, I don't even have a profession, nor is my family rich. I'm lucky to live in a place where I get by quite well anyway. And in the west it is also possible, more or less easy to rise to the middle-class, spare some money, buy a house... But the good situation is dependent on the global concurrence. The neo-liberal politics is raging in all parts of the world and all the time more and more people have to wake up to the cruel reality of capitalism even in the western wellfare societies. Capitalism means continuing insecurity and unstable conditions of living for most people.

 

Diogenes,

How does that apply to government ownership like you have with state socialism,where the government owns most things related to the economy?

 

Sorry, I don't understand your question. What do you mean by state socialism? And what did you mean by "like you have"? Did I say something implying state socialism? Sorry, it may be just simply because I'm not native english speaker, you know. Help me understand here, please! I like the topic. I don't claim to be right. Concept of ownership probably exceeds my capacity and skill and knowledge, but what can I do else than try, when my heart tells me to.

 

Well I was thinking that you were talking about individuals and ownership. I was assuming that you would be for the government ownership of businesses and means of production you find with state socialism or communism over individual ownership like is found with capitalism?

Even if the government owns something, it's still the "ownership" that you said doesn't exists. Or were you talking more about Swedish style socialism mixed with capitalism? I probably misread somethings in your post,it sounded very philosphical.

 

He ment a return to commons, land democratically shared with no real owner for example air is a commons, we all share the air and no real owner.

 

hi

own what.?

the earth is alive as we are
but a socialists does not believe they own
life but have to live it equally ..

change is hard,for those who are blind to the reality
which they live under.
and yes a human being ie jesus
like many before and after was speaking
of a human form of socialsim
the freedom to live,to choose the path
to walk in the eye of the self
we are all here for a reason,but
unless you choose to stay stunted
and carry on living under governments
of wars....classs divide and fat cats

i believe it will happen a change a revolution
soon,
love n peaceform saff

 

Unlike many who have already posted here, I'm not convinced that socialism is the answer. What has happened is that we have become accustomed to the belief that government can solve any of our social diemmas when in fact it has become true that such programs are nothing more than the "easy way out."

Something that people need to understand is that you cannot solve a social dilemma by addressing the symptoms, you must address the root cause. For example, when one says that there are too many people without health care, that is not a problem but a symptom of a problem. What needs to be adderessed is why this is the case. If you'll look at some of the reasons why health care is in such a crisis, you'll see that there is a lot of red tape when getting medicine approved by the FDA and not all of these reasons are necessarily there to protect consumers. In addition, efforts have been made in the past to prevent herbalists and other healers from competing for clients in the medical field.

As I stated in a previous post, what really needs to be addressed is not necessarily a free market but corporatism, merchantilism and corporate welfare. Even the founding fathers were weary of corporations.

www.spiritone.com/%7Egdy52150/corplaw.htm

 

I lived under Soviet occupation for nearly half of my life. If you people think it is so glorious, I urge you to go talk to anyone from Eastern Europe and see the joys of communism, you can have it. In fact take a trip to Albania and see what the people there have to show for it, as they are still under a communist government.

Even in socialist countries, like Sweden, they still practice capitalism, but then the government just taxes everyone and re-distributes alot of it accordingly.

In the words of Austin Powers, "Yay Capitalism."

 

You forget that the nations you mentioned were anti-Marxist (most banned the complete works of Marx) and communist in name only. Also Capitalism is not that hot, Hitler came to power through Capitalist wanting to shut down the labour movment. In 1934 American corperations tried to get General Butler to lead 500,000 troops to overthrow the US goverment but Butler blew the whisle on them. According to Capitalism Hiter was the perfect leader as the market loved him.

Capitalism and Democracy doesn't mix, as Capitalism is undemocractic by nature. Capitalism gives people with more wealth, more opportunity to make wealth and gives the people with more wealth, more say in society.

So viva Anarchism.

 

Where do you get the idea that Sweden is socialist? It's as capitalist as it can get... From what I know (I have family in Sweden), the state doesn't just "tax everyone and distribute a lot of it". Sweden is not that different from the UK or Germany, in terms of economics, I think.

 

hi there

yes socialism will help to change our world

it is the choice to change
so if under capitalism we are stunted
then the ideas for socialism are a step forward

to progress as a race upon this planet

all we have learnt so far are ,
is how to introduce productive ideals
yet many are living in low standards
so to move forward
we must allow for a change,a
human race of awareness
to our NEEDS...

all that can be useful is here
already. we just need to share
our load...

but ,over all this system is killing our
human beings ,OUR people
and socialism is a peaceful idea.
so the change is in us
not just the idea of socialism
but to understand the concept
of socialism.world wide
not pockets of so called socialists governments
or communists as they are portrayed through stalin
or anyone else who was more a taker
than a sharer.

so they idea needs to be planted
to be thought about to grow
to be aware.....thats the reality
of a socialists mind and heart and soul

thank you
from saff

ps.

many men turn from the idea of unity
for they fear the letting go..yet
to be at any point in time within the politics
or religion, means there was an ldea..
a change..unfortunatley capitalsim
does not agree to change.

so face the truth,speak out
stand stronge
this is your life
we only really remember one life
we can create unity. just stand stronge.