pregnancy and the soul

I am not stuck on the Christian interpretation. As I said, if she's not Christian, she can believe whatever she wants. But IF she is Christian, then there are certain misconceptions that should be cleared up. For example, believing that anyone gives away a part of their soul probably does not hold well with basic Christian tenets. You are using the word "soul" too loosely, that is why you are confused. I doubt what you experienced was the "soul" of your child, but whatever you want to believe is fine.

 

For someone who has never given birth you seem to think you know everything. It's really pretty ignorant of you to dismiss the experiences of people who have been pregnant or are pregnant or given birth. Notice how ALL the mothers (include me as well) in this thread agree that there is a spiritual connection between mother and baby? There is nothing doubful about it, only your ignorance of the experience.

 

I can say with absolute certainly, it was.

Some things have to be experienced to be known, this may well be one of them.

 

I'm not disagreeing that there is a spiritual connection between the mother and the baby, idiot. I am saying that that is not the same thing as the mother GIVING part of her soul to her child. 2 completely different things, can you follow that? From the Christian perspective, that would be completely innaproppriate for her to believe because she would be misinformed. Anyway, she already said she's not Christian, so whatever she wants to believe is absolutely fine.

Sue me for being ignorant of having a baby.[edit]

 

First of all I am not the idiot here you are for arguing something you know absolutely nothing about. If I am white trash because I have 4 children of my own and stayed home to look after them, then I am more than proud to be white trash. To be part of such a wonderful group is an honour.

Second it is not inappropriate for her to believe anything she choses when it comes to religion, that is between her and whatever higher power she happens to believe in. Regardless of organized religion you cannot regulate what people think and believe in their hearts and yes, in their own soul.

It is entirely possible for one soul to connect to another and to share a bond that is pure love. Having a child and breastfeeding are two of those times. Breastfeeding your own child or even one that is not your own, the child becomes part of you and you part of it as you have given part of yourself to that child. When you share any part of yourself with anyone either through feeding, pregnancy, birth or a simple act of loving kindness you are sharing part of your soul with that person. You are your soul. When someone says they feel something so strongly they feel it deep down within themselves they don't mean their liver, they mean their soul. It is the same thing. Can YOU follow that?

I said you were ignorant of the experience. Meaning you have not had a child so therefore have not experienced any of this and could not possibly know what is being discussed. To truly understand it you have to have felt it. You haven't. Get it?

 

Your point would be better taken if you were to present it in a loving and peaceful manner. Attacking others personally with names like "idiot" and "white trash" are neither peaceful nor loving. Whether one follows the organized religion of Christ or not, we can all learn something from the example of the life of Jesus. Treating others with respect, the way we would like to be treated, is certianlly something that should resonate with hippies as well as Christians.

That said, I will have to respectfully disagree with your position that a mother sharing a part of her soul with her child, and vice versa, is not compatible with Christianity. If you look at the context of how soul is used in scripture, you will see that it is often in conjuction, or synomous, with heart. We certianly say that we give our heart to those we love, therefore why not our soul? When one has a spiritual connection with another person (or soul) the souls intermingle and connect. A piece of another's soul is left with you when they have touched your soul. Likewise the spiritual connection of a mother and her unborn child growing within her womb, is a mystery that is not easily explained, but a mother understands it with her heart and soul. Jesus often used the analogy of a mother's amazing love to discribe God's love for His children.

To say that a mother does not pass on a part of her soul to her child is like saying that she does not pass on physical or personality traits to her child. Because a soul can not be idenitified physically, does not negate the reality of it.

peace and love,
~mosaic

 

ive been studying christian theology in church and personally for ten years, and from the perspective of the churches dogma each persons soul is individual and unique and there can be no crossover.

that said, the intense bond mothers establish with their babies in utero and when they are seperate is increadable, and makes me think maybe there is a more intimate bond than just closeness. jesus never really commented much on the issue, although in the bible the mothers love for her children is given as an example of incredable intensity and as a powerful symbol of the strength of human love, devotion and grief. so christianity does comment on the bond although not in a personal capacity.

please dont get angry when people say you can't know what the feelings that come with carrying a child are, its not a personal criticism, i used to feel a little pissed off when people said the same to me but its true, having carried a child inside you, even if only for 18 weeks like me changes your perspectives and gives you insight you just cant have without it. im sure you can understand that, you just seem so agressive about it.

also even within the christian religion i allways had certain ideas that differed from the accepted, like evolution for example, and i think that the principles of christianity are not dependant on all of the givens declared in the bible, i think its a lot more flexible than we are led to believe, jesus certainly encouraged free thinking. but anyway im gonna go now, talked too much.

 

I, personally, believe that there is a connection between every living thing on Earth. I call it the Holy Spirit- it's the pure and beautiful energy that connects us all to each other, and to the Higher Being that created us all. I do believe that every soul is unique and individual- children are direct products of their parents' creation of love. My son wouldn't be the same boy had he been conceived by a different father, or mother. I'm not really sure whether souls have been reincarnated or not... But that's just another piece to the mysterious infinite pie of life and all these questions will hopefully be answered someday!

I do believe that our children are little extensions of ourselves. We pass on our energy, our DNA and chromosomes, our cells, our blood, our nutrients, our milk. It is absolutely amazing to me that we feed, nourish, and GROW our children inside our bodies for 9 months, and then after they're born we continue to nourish their bodies with milk we make especially for them. We can SEE how much they look like us, and then we SEE how big they continue to grow from our milk- it's just AWESOME!!! We do pass on a LOT of things to our babies, whether or not a "soul", by definition, is considered one of those things is irrelevant. We ARE connected to our offspring physically, mentally, and spiritually forever.

Enjoy this time with your babies, pregnant mamas. Your bond will never be the same as it is now. You may get uncomfortable at times, you may feel inconvenienced a little, you may want to give birth as soon as possible so you can have your body back again!!! BUT, don't take this time for granted for a second. It is such a strangely beautiful, romantic, awe-inspiring time. I can't wait to do it again! I am one that has trouble staying pregnant (I have preterm labor) so I know first hand that having a healthy, trouble-free pregnancy is an absloute MIRACLE and should not be taken lightly! Good luck to you all, and ENJOY it!

 

What do you mean pretty much over? I could have another child right now if I wanted to. It's quite possible to have children in your 60's if you are able.

Come back to this discussion when you have reached those goals and had your children. Then and only then will you be able to understand it. Until that point you can't possibly. It doesn't have anything to do with religion of any sort. Spirit and soul are not tied to religion and no matter how hard you might try to argue it that does not nor will it ever change that fact.

Actually you were and it isn't the first time. You just got called on it today and I see that it was dealt with by a moderator, so I will leave it at that.

 

I have to disagree, again. My body is an individual thing, yet in some miriclous way I am able to pass on a part of me (and dh) to my child. Because it is a physical thing we can see that it is passed from parent to child. The soul is a spiritual thing and can not be seen. It must be felt, or known, through faith.

I find it hard to believe that in talking about spiritual things one would be speaking only literally. Perhaps the original poster can clarify that for us.

This statement seems incompatible with your defense of a literal Christian interpertation of the soul. It is also incompatible with the love and peace message of Jesus that was embraced by the hippy movement of the 60's and continues to be the message of tolerance and open mindedness today. I hope you will reconsider your attitude toward others.

Is your definition of "white trash" someone who has children at a young age? If so, there are an alful lot of hippies here that could be offended by that. Where's the love? Man we are all just trying to live peacefully in the way we love. Just because the establishment says you should wait till 25 or 30 to have children doesn't mean that is the only way to have a fulfilling life. Try to be a little more open minded wont' ya?

Peace,
Mosaic

 

Even if you could have kids at 60, there would most likely be problems. The risk of miscarriage is higher, so there's a chance you couldn't have kids even if you wanted to. And, haha, I'm sorry, but your child would be fucked up if you had it at age 60. It would be all kinds of "challenged." Your childbearing years are pretty much over for a safe, normal child. By "pretty much over" I don't mean it's IMPOSSIBLE for you to have kids, I mean that most women are bright enough to stop once they reach a certain age.

And really, I wasn't calling you white trash. I was saying that of course I don't have kids because I'm only 17 and I would have to be white trash to do such a stupid thing as get knocked up before I even graduated high school. If you want to believe I'm calling you that, go ahead. And no, I won't be back on this discussion, because when I'm middle aged and have kids, I won't be arguing with a person one third my age, especially when I claim to be so busy I can't even shower.

And this is the last I'm saying on this subject, because there's a point when I decide I'm not going to waste minutes of my life arguing these points. I've said what I have to, and I'll repeat them if they're unclear: No, from a Christian perspective you don't give parts of your soul to your child. No, this is no longer relevant since the poster indicated she isn't Christian. No, I was not calling you white trash, but you may believe what you want. Yes, your childbearing years are pretty much over, while I can experience this magical "soul-sharing" process if I want to. And my point was never that the bonding between mother and child isn't powerful and awe-inspiring. It was that from a theological standpoint, what occurs is not the same as soul transferrring.

 

I really don't know. I think she was speaking literally and asking if there was some process of souls being passed down from one generation to another. If she was speaking metaphorically, then I would be completely wrong.

I said I was raised Christian and have respect for the religion. That does not mean I believe in its teachings. I have read the Bible and studied it, but as one would study a book of philosophy. I'm also not a hippy. I'd say a lot of the people on this site don't buy into that.

No, my definition is more inclusive, but that can certainly be one aspect of it. People are offended by almost anything these days; if you can't survive without breaking down at criticism, it isn't society's duty to protect you. I've been insulted on this board and it doesn't bother me, so why should it really bother someone else? If they are really bothered by an insult from a person they don't even know, there's probably an underlying problem that has nothing to do with me. I don't believe that anyone REALLY cares or really gets that offended. If I did think I was really hurting people, I wouldn't be so offensive. But no one really takes this site seriously (as in they don't take it to heart). It's not the establishment saying you should wait until 25 or 30. It's common sense. Most people getting pregnant in the US at 15, 16, don't plan it and it disrupts their lives, and it also provides a lesser life for the child in most cases. Again, common sense. Anyway, thanks, but I'm not replying to this thread again after I log off in a few minutes.

 

...and there you go again, back to your old ways. You entered into this conversation on a public forum, so you opened yourself up to debate with anyone who choses to post on this topic. If you don't want to discuss things with people then don't post. Your choice.

Anyway...I would not personally care if I did have challenged children, I would love them regardless, and they would be perfect to me and that is all that really counts. After all your volunteering in third world clinics are you really going to tell me that you wouldn't adopt a child just because that child was not as perfect as you wished it to be? Why bother to even say that you will adopt then?

Again... it has NOTHING to do with religion at all. You are only 17, you've never had children, and I'm sorry but you can't understand what is being discussed. You just can't. It's not a bad thing, it's just a fact at this stage of your life. When you do have children you will understand.

 

Calling some a racist hateful name like "white trash" is just as bad as some other names that I will not mention. It is offensive, no matter what context, whether in real life or here, esp. directed towards people who have children at young ages. Yes, a 16 may not be emotionally ready to have a child, but why be derogatory towards them? My mother had me at 17. She is definitely not deserving of that name you like to throw around. No one is. No matter how better you think you are.

 

An excellent book I found helpful with my 2 pregnancies was 'Praying For Your Unborn Child' (Francis and Judith McNutt).

Editorial Reviews
From Library Journal
$12.95. rel A former Dominican priest and author of Healing (1974), MacNutt and his wife Judith now run an Episcopalian healing center. Convinced that the spiritual/emotional climate of the pre-natal period is crucial to later growth and that widespread prayer for the unborn could usher in "a gentle revolution" of love and security, they offer thoughts on prayer before conception, during the three trimesters, and at birth itself, with a special chapter encouraging fathers. Appendixes include reflections on miscarriage and abortion, plus data, month by month, on fetal development