Oh BS, I certainly DO NOT want a nurse diagnosing my child or prescribing her medication. First of all you have no doctors degree or experience in such matters. Second it against the law for ANYone that is not a DOCTOR to diagnose and prescribe. Seems to me like you take on airs. So the doctors are not gods, no shit. Neither are nurses. You take care of old dying people who if you ever listen to them, They want to go home. If you accussing me of dis'in' the church, read what I said again. It never happened. I never said anything about the church. That my friend is a whole different thread. If you think you are more qualified then ALL the doctors and ALL the Judges that are involved in this case for the last 15 yrs,, then you need to be GOD. Since your second guessing HIS plan. It's apples and oranges. You say I know nothing about a situation like this. Don't assume too much. I mayself layed in a coma for 52 days when I was 17. I layed in the bed holding my daughter as she passed. My father died in my arms. My step daughter was comatose for weeks with no hope of recovery. They puled her plug. I can SAY. I lived it, you just speculate and rant n rave about the injustise of it all. Well who ever said life was easy. Or that the choices you make are right or wrong. It's up to the individual and their preferences. I hear you saying that YOU know better the anyone else what should happen to Terri. You sould like you are full of your self even to the point of saying you are more educated then the dddoctors in this care again BULLSHIT.
Ha, ha, you are soo funny. You judge me and don't even know who I am. Your inflammatory remarks fall on deaf ears. I thought you would be more openminded. More educated than doctors?? Never said. You know nothing about a situation like this?? Never said. I remember seeing some of your posts about natural healthcare (pulling out cancer??) and probably made the assumption that you were a little more openminded. My bad. If I come off arrogant that is unintentional. I guess only if you have worked in healthcare can you have an appreciation for how much the other staff (nurses and therapists, etc) actually do? Maybe not. I am not saying one is above the other. Calling the Host a cookie, for future reference, is offensive. To a Catholic it is more than symbolic, it is very spiritual. Hopefully, you can respect that. Obviously you have very strong and bitter feelings about this subject for one reason or another. I am sorry you feel so hurt or angry and hope you will heal soon. I only have so much energy and spending it arguing seems futile at the moment. I hope to meet up with you again SH under more peaceful circumstances. Happy Trails! Maggie, I will have to get back to you after Easter when I can get an answer for you.
Firstly: She wouldn't even still be here if it wasn't for the feeding tube. It's nothing but a man-made way of keeping people from dying. And it isn't an enjoyable way either. Secondly: These protests are disgraceful. These people can protest against the 'painful' death of one person. Meanwhile,tens of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of American soldiers are dying in ways that many of us couldn't even think of. Where are all the protests against the war? Oh, yeah, they're all over other countries, but almost none here. Meanwhile, the media discusses the cruelness and awfulness of pulling out a feeding tube, then go right on to praise the war and give almost no details (unfalse, at least) at all. I can almost gaurantee you this, however: Most of these cross-carriers out there protesting have probably never protested the war. I can't show proof that they haven't, and I highly doubt you can show actual proof that they have.
All I know is it has been a very long 8 days. I have worked with special ed children for 18 years. I found from viewing the tapes of Terri that she was a lot more responsive than some of the children I cared for. She should not have had to go this long avenue to death. There are faster and more pleasant ways of passing on available to the medical community if indeed this is what was decided for her. Free Jack Kevorkian! Ironic isn't it? It's against the law to seek out death with dignity, even if the final means is by your own hand, but it's okay to have someone make your death decision for you based on 'alleged' statements. Where was the proof? Her husband did not love her. He has moved on, gotten his windfall of money. He should have let her go...to her parent's care! He has refused her denstristry care, rehab, swallow tests, examinations, therapy. What is he afreaid of? That she would have gotten well enough to really tell the whole story of that night 15 years ago? BTW she had an eating disorder called bulimia. She purposely starved herself to a degree of thinness to satisfy her husband years ago who threatened to leave her if she got fat. I hope he, Greer and all those assholes get the karma they have coming to them in THIS life!
nightwind, a lot of what you say *in your second paragraph* just isn't borne out in un-biased documents. Read this and see for yourself (unless you are like many of the people here who don't want to be confused with the facts because their minds are already made up - if so, nevermind). * - added for clarity
I agree with Nightwind that there is a kinder method. As far as me knowing nothing about doc,nurses, therapists, ect. I spent 25 yrs in and out of hospitails all over the US with my daughter Amy day and night for sometimes months at a time.. I imagain I have spent more physical hours in hospitails then you have and apperently seen and experienced it from the other side. I was a respitory threapist for thoes 25 yrs. I've worked in nursing homes also. I was in home health care, caring for the elderly. But I would not assume myself to know about every aspect of the medical perfession as you do. Your a respitory therapist, your field is in lungs period. It is unperfessional to step in to shoes that do not fit you. And that gets on my nerves. I was not being disrespectfull to anyones religion. It's a wafer, it is a symbolic gesture. Spirituality is a personal thing between one and their GOD. I dont see how I am being closed minded. I went threw it, your just a spectator. I'm not angery. I'm greaving.
what way would you have her die? bed-sore ridden and still incognizant of her surroundings in 2026? after heart problems, lung problems, cancer, endrometiosis and whatever else develops when you canot move on your own? You seem convinced that despite only having minimal brainstem activity, that she feels pain. If so, why do you condemn her to many more years of it? I know if that were me or my spouse, a smuggled in dose of dmt and opium would carry either one of us away. If that were my son, maybe the same, but definately pallitive care.
SH, I too am grieving. It has been very difficult to even eat and drink without thinking about her each time. As far as my second paragraph was concerned, I have read just about everything out there is on the net. Her husband has consistently denied her rehabilitation, dental work, even basics such as cleaning, and even when she had a debilitating kidney infection. When she collaspsed, he didn't perform CPR even though he knew how to do it. He let her lay there for 15 minutes until the EMT's arrived. And, then there are the x-rays of the multiple fractured bones discovered on her first arrival to the hospital. I'm sorry, but I guess my mind is made up concerning his character. He disgusts me. He has denied her parents the right to care for her time and time again. He has denied her parents the right to see if there COULD be a further progressive development. Like I stated before, I have worked with children with much less responsiveness than Terri has shown. It is interesting you chose a doument from her guardian ad litum. He was dismissed from his position! Actually, there were 2 of them, both dismissed!
drumminmama, if someone smuggled in the drugs and she died, you would be up for manslaughter or murder. That is waht is so ironic in this case. There is a much more dignified, painless way to put someone down. But it is against the law in every state ,but Oregon.
Since I have been referring people to and quoting from that report, would you mind giving me the information of why he was dismissed and who dismissed him? Thanks.
Judge Removes Professor as Terri Schiavo's Guardian ad Litem by Steven Ertelt LifeNews.com Editor December 23, 2003 Pinellas Park, FL (LifeNews.com) -- A judge has dismissed Jay Wolfson, the Stetson University professor who had been serving as Terri Schiavo's guardian ad litem. Though the order was dated December 17, attorneys for Terri family and her estranged husband Michael only learned recently that Chief Circuit Judge David A. Demers in St. Petersburg had removed Wolfson. When the state legislature passed Terri's Law, part of the legislation included appointing an independent guardian to report to Governor Jeb Bush (R-FL) about Terri's situation and make recommendations. Wolfson was selected by Demers in October. Wolfson assessed Terri's case by reviewing hundreds of court documents, interviewing family members, doctors and specialists, and visited Terri on several occasions. He eventually claimed Terri is in a persistent vegetative state and determined that Terri had no chance of recovery. However, Wolfson also said a swallow test should be administered to determine if Terri could eat and drink on her own if courts overturned Terri's law allow Michael to remove Terri's feeding tube again. Demers dismissed Wolfson saying he had completed the work assigned to him under Terri's Law. Bush spokesman Jacob DiPietre told the Associated Press that the governor was disappointed to learn Wolfson was removed. "From the very beginning, the governor stressed the need for an advocate and third party'' to represent Terri, DiPietre said. Bush had sent Wolfson a letter with several questions about Terri the day before Bush found out the news. He wanted to know what type of experiences Terri would have if she dies from starvation and dehydration. He also asked whether Wolfson knew of any indications Terri had made concerning end-of-life care if she were in a situation like the one she is in now. Bush attorneys are working on a request to Demers asking him to reinstate Wolfson. Pat Anderson, the attorney for Terri's parents, said she was surprised by Wolfson's removal. George Felos, the assisted suicide advocate who is Michael's attorney, agreed with Demers that Wolfson should be removed. Felos is getting help in the lawsuit from the ACLU. Related web sites: Terri Schiavo's family - http://www.terrisfight.org International Task Force on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide - http://www.iaetf.org
The swallow tests were denied by Michael. Here also is one of the most thorough articles on this case. http://www.crisismagazine.com/january2004/johansen.htm
So he wasn't removed for cause, he was dismissed because he had completed what he was instructed to do by the judge that appointed him. To me that doesn't invalidate his findings. Why don't you read the report if you haven't already and you will see why I said what I did. BTW three barium swallow tests were administered to Mrs. Schiavo. I don't recall when but it's in the report.
Poor Terri Schiavo people are so mean. Just to let her be half dead and have nothing. I hope those people feel guilty for not letting her have a freak feeding tube!!
Yes, but did you read the part about his recommendations for further testing? They were denied. Jeb wanted more information. With Michael as guardian and caregiver, it's considered by some in law to be at crosspurposes. Did you get a chance yet to read the other article? Anyway, this particular case will be shut very soon, perhaps as soon as tomorrow. But I think this will open the doors to much needed change in the laws regarding death with dignity. I feel it is too bad that this required intervention by the feds, as I believe this is a personal decision to be decided by the person and their family members only. Well, I'll check back tomorrow. Gotta run. Take care, nightwind
I said if it were me or my partner. not someone else. we have an exrta legal agreement aside fom our living wills. we will do whatever it takes to get the other one home and then...poof ... candy floss cloud down the tunnel of light into the eternal chysanthemum.
She died years ago. They should let her body follow her soul. Keeping a living corpse around just because you can't accept the person inside it has died is ghoulish at best.
Is this thread about Terri or her husband. After 15 yrs, would you not want to get on with your life. I'm not in agreement with Michael at all. But after yrs and yrs, why can't he have a life too. would you sit and let your life go by waiting for what will never come. I can't sit in judgement of this man, GOD will deal with him in HIS on time and in HIS own way. You don't know what's in his heart or his motives neither do I, you just sit in speculation spouting off. Let her go with some dignity.
