Why I could never believe in a religion that pushes anything like a rapture

My sister is an evangelical Christian, and she believes in the rapture.

I told her one time that I look forward to it----I'll get my video camera out and record all those naked women rising up into the sky.

My brother's wife recently asked her about what she thinks about the murder of Pretti and Good by Ice thugs, and her response was that she is praying that God directs Trump to lead ICE in a good and just manner. Oh good, thoughts and prayers from my sister. I can rest easy now. My response was, "That's good. I wonder why no one is praying to stop school shootings. I bet it would be just as effective."

My mom often tells me how my sister helps out at the church giving food to the poor people. I think she is always repeating this because she knows that my wife and have often made large pots of Philippine food, packaged it in individual styrofoam containers and handed it out by ourselves in the downtown area. There was a spot where Abbott was sending the asylum seekers to Denver (after making false promises to them)---a hotel that offered them free rooms, and we would often bring food and clothes there and hand them out, until my wife became afraid to do that, afraid of ICE, because she is also an immigrant. But we don't do this with a church, or even a nonprofit organization. We do it ourselves. And we do it because there are people in need and we want to help them.

I would commend my sister on her efforts at this, except for one thing that sticks in my craw. One time she thought that I needed help with money. I didn't. I never asked anyone for money, I didn't need money, but I had to pay some things which I was perfectly capable of doing on my own. But because of her own biases and the fact that I am not a Christian, and make a point of that unlike other family members, she apparently assumed that I was a failure and headed straight for a life of struggle and God was punishing me. (I'm sure she was also jealous because she always lived life on the straight and narrow, and saved every bit of money, while I on the other hand spent tons of money living life to the fullest, traveled around the world, and was always having a great time, and certainly did not live on the straight and narrow at all. Anyway, thinking that I needed money she made it very clear that she does not believe in helping anyone, because she thinks that God put those stumbling blocks in front of those people for them to learn a lesson, and that by her offering money or whatever is needed to those people, that it is getting in the way of God teaching them a lesson.

I responded by saying that, I assume that she is talking about helping people in general because her tone sounded like she thought I needed money or help from her, and I would never ask of such from her, nor do I need anyone's help. So I quickly steered the question to helping people in general, and made it very clear that this is not what Jesus taught at all. He preached that we should help the poor and downtrodden, and the foreigner (and yes, her opinion on migrants is that they should stay home and fix the problems in their own country). How could anyone think that message Jesus gave was that they should not help these downtrodden, marginalized, and down on their luck people, because God is trying to teach them a lesson and you are just in the way!

So today, she was telling everyone how she prays for Trump and that he does the right thing---still completely oblivious to the evil he is manifesting---and she ended we may not understand it, but she knows the Bible so well, and she prays on it and meditates, and she knows that when Jesus comes he will take her with him. And then a little later my mom reminds me of all the good work she does for the poor...

AND THIS BRINGS ME TO THE PROBLEM OF THE RAPTURE: I could never believe in a God that is supposed to be filled with unconditional love, a love that is so great that he would only take a chosen few up to heaven with him, leaving all the rest to suffer a horrible fate for the rest of their mortal days.

I think that you would have to be incredibly self-centered to believe in such a thing:

First of all, the point would be to make 'yourself' one of the chosen few. Because you certainly don't want to be one of the wretched who are left to suffer. So you have to be righteous enough to be chosen.

But there are only so many that can be chosen, so chances are, even if you are good enough to be one of the chosen, people around you will not be included in the chosen few. It could even be a close family member, or a spouse or friend. But you are chosen for the greatest thing in all of life, so you can't let that bother you----no---you are going with Jesus---and you certainly can't question his choice or beg for just one more. You can maybe try to guide others, but in the end----it is you and you alone that you can make sure is righteous enough, and no regrets.And if you can't make sure that your own family members or those you love are included---much less the bulk of the masses of humanity!

So you got to help these downtrodden and unlucky masses to make sure that you are righteous enough. But many of them are not going to be chosen, and God is teaching them a lesson anyway---why else would they be in that situation? So who are you really helping? YOURSELF! You don't really care about these people---they are not as good as you. You want to make sure that you are chosen, so you help them.

Seriously----what kind of religion is that? How is this morally acceptable?

 

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Reminds me of the Jehova's Witnesses, who reckon that only 144,000 will be allowed into Heaven, so each of them wants to be one of the chosen few. However, as there are more than 144K Jehova's Witnesses, lots of them will be left out. So it's a competition to be the most religious in order to gain entry to the ultimate prize.

Personally I think that virtue signalling won't work. God knows all our motivations for whatever we do. So trying to look good for Jesus is a waste of time. He knows what you've done and why you've done it, and if it's just a way of trying to get yourself into a lifeboat while those around you drown then he'll know, and probably think less of you for being so callous.

Just be yourself, and live your own life, and at the end of it, when you stand before your maker and have to be judged for your worldly actions, at least you'll know that you did everything according to your own conscience, and not because you felt you needed to impress anyone else.

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I dont bother with that religion anymore. Haven't since I was 13. I didn't mind them much for a while but its too mean and hateful of a religion.

 

I used to be polite and speak with the Jahovas at the door....it was loose and the guy was pretty cool, but then it got out of hand....he wanted to line up times....he wanted to send shit....always had stuff on the ipad read to roll.....of course the literature....I was just being nice. Then the discussion that only the Jahovas were going to be saved and sent off to heaven, all the rest were doomed.

Sorry guys, how can you believe in that? I'm no saint, for damn sure, but 99% of the world faces damnation ?

So, finally, I simply told him, hey, this just doesn't work for me anymore, so, I think we are done...

 

End of Days remain a mystery despite pronouncements from many creeds.

 

Exactly!

I have made that same point to my sister in the past.

 

LOVE IT! LMAO!

 

Now, where is religion if you use logic?? There's no room for guilt !!

 

Missionaries stay away from my house----unfortunately----because I have so many arguments yet to try out on them!

I used to get missionaries every 5 years or so--I would invite them in, debate religion which I really enjoyed, visibly created an existential crisis in a few (younger mormons seem to struggle with what I told them), but then they would never return for 5 years, at which point I guess they either forgot what I did the last time, or they hoped someone else lived in my house. But I don't think I've had a single missionary come for about 10 years now.

I thought it was fun, and it was a chance to see how strong my religious arguments really are, because heck-----my sister doesn't ever want to discuss religion with me. And I have tried so hard to challenge her pro-life arguments, for example, and she has gone so far as to tell me that she will prove me wrong, and she can back everything up with scripture and so on and so forth-------but she will never actually debate it. She got a taste of my scriptural argument against pro-life on a Facebook post I did, and she probably realized that she wouldn't be able to counter it. Darn it!

It is rare that I can reel her into a good argument. She is always---Bible this, bible that----so I can usually make a comment, like I did about thoughts and prayers over school shootings in the first post. At which point she will not offer any more. I have challenged her beliefs too many times. The debate we had about helping poor people is the last one that we had, and that was back before Covid. Even at that point she had pretty much decided that she didn't want me challenging her beliefs.

I don't prey on Christians and their beliefs. And I certainly praise those who really do understand the teachings of love that Jesus presented. I have always argued that everyone has their own path, and I try to support that. But if you are going to throw your path in my face, then I will gladly take it on and argue against it. And of course I have written extensively on the subject.

But what is happening in our country today, and how religion is being weaponized to force the nation to submit to evangelical ideology makes it very difficult for me to be passive on the subject. To be honest, I have a hard time being respectful towards Christianity. I always have to remind myself that there is a minority of Christians who, as I said, understand the teachings of Jesus.

The self-serving nature of the rapture narrative that I shared here, is the same self-serving mentality that runs deep through MAGA. And any Nationalist ideology for that matter. It prevents people from seeing that we are all the same----we are all human, and have the same desires and wants and fears, any one of us would do what it takes to provide for our family and raise them up from the struggles life presents to us. Skin color, accent, language gender preference, beliefs----underneath we are all the same, we are all just people. There is so much potential in the world today to raise up everyone, economically, financially, socially, to bring about global prosperity----but it takes working together, accepting our differences, and a willingness to share. Greed is literally destroying the planet around us. We are literally on a suicidal path in the US----driven by hate, greed, and the fear that hate and greed is creating through manipulation!

The US was at the heart of creating this bold new world, and we would have benefited from it immensely. But that opportunity has been destroyed for us. And most people are just too stupid to realize what they missed and that we are now a dying nation, bleeding out after we shot ourselves in the chest.

 

I admire people with faith, but come on.....it has to make sense. This Jehovah guy drove a nice new Lexus SUV....I guess there was some kind of reward program.

I feel sorry for those Mormon kids, put through two years of ridicule, for what? Seems their time could be much better spent volunteering at a shelter or food bank, or banging nails in homes for the poor, or keeping company with the sick and elderly.

 

I forgot to mention the, Ow! The cheetah ate my face off moment, and my sister's response that actually got me to thinking about the rapture narrative.

So my sister's daughter went to school in Ireland and ended up soneding several years there. She met a guy from South America---a good Christian of course---met him through the church I assume, and eventually they got engaged. This happened before Trump was elected. Now her daughter has returned to America, and they were planning to make money, and do everything right to get married. My sister voted for Trump which I thought, does she realize the implications for her future son-in-law? Now he cannot even think about coming to the US because he is from one of the Nations that Trump flat out suspended immigration from.

So what is my sister's response on this? She says, we will pray about it and God will find a way for him to come here.

So with all the heart ache and broken families and violent aggression and racism, at least God will take care of her future son-in-law and protect him to come here to America. When she started talking about how she prays for Trump and all the other stuff I mentioned in the first post, I got to thinking about the self-centered nature of how she views this problem with her future son-in-law, grounded in this idea of help for me but not for thee, and my thoughts went from there.

 

I think this is all a crutch.....and if God doesn't give her what she wants, "He must have good reason for it"

Now. Not to put us on the level of the Devine, but imagine you're hearing what God hears. "Oh give me this" "Oh, do this, do that" "Help me this" "Smite my enemies" "Save us from this or that"..... Imagine the noise God puts up with.

 

A majority Christians (especially Catholics, eastern Orthodox and mainline Protestants don't believe in the rapture, but a sizeable minority of Christians do--including 36% of Protestant pastors. These are the Biblical literalists, who focus on a few passages in the Bible (especially Saint Paul's first letter to the Thessalonians), for scriptural support. 1Thess. was written in 49-51 C.E.when first generation Christians were starting to die off, and the survivors were worrying that if they did so before Christ came again, they wouldn't make it to the hereafter. Paul assured them not to worry. Those who died already would be resurrected and "we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Quite a bold prediction! But even Paul didn't assign a date to it!

As time continued to pass before Christ's return, 100 other versus in the New Testament emphasized that no one can predict when Christ's return will be, including Jesus. :" No one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows." (Mat. 24:36) The notion that the chosen will go flying thru the air at the critical moment probably gives comfort to those who have a low tolerance for uncertainty, but support for the rapture seems shaky at best and critics complain that it risks encouraging believers to neglect concerns about the here and now, if hope for an escape hatch to the hereafter is available. Brother Joshua Mhlakela, a South African Christian, is just the latest in a line "prophets" who confidently predicted a specific date that has come and gone without anybody being transported. " “I’m a billion per cent sure", he said, "the rapture will occur on the 23rd and 24th of September 2025”. .As of Feb.16, 2026, no rapture. William Miller made a similar prediction in 1843, and lots of folks sold their property, only to be told "Sorry, I miscalculated." One of Miller's associates revised the date to 1844. The failure of that to pan out has been called the Great Disappointment. Seventh Day Adventists got their start making such predictions, and they managed to stay afloat after similar failures (post-millennial dispensationalists). But even they largely gave up predicting specific dates. Still, 36% of U.S. pastors believe that such a rapture will occur before the period of global chaos known as the "Tribulation" (pre-millennial dispensationalists), and another18% (post-millennial dispensationalists) think it will occur after that! Some critics attribute this pattern of thinking to "delusional disorder", identified in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of psychiatric maladies. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/faith...re-didnt-happen-faith-delusion-and-denial/Yet people brought up in communities where most folks believe such things would understandably find it difficult to reject a concept that Paul is so confident about in 1Thess. Educational limitations also probably play a role. Only 28% of Evangelical Christians have a 4-year college degree.