So if I understand this correctly the Unitarian Universalist Church is not a Christian organization, although it believes in a soul that goes to "heaven"? It seems to be a philosophical organization except that it believes in "salvation". So it seems to be a religion in that it does subscribe to some sort of God and "salvation", that is deliverance from sin and separation from God. Do I have that right? No, guess not as you don't have to believe in a God and Salvation can be salvation from anything such as a bad temper. Unitarian Universalists believe in a God, but the god can metaphorical, so you don't have to believe in a God or god: They believe in Sin, or opposition to God, but sin can be a metaphorical opposition to a metaphorical God, or not: They believe in Salvation from Sin, but the Salvation from Sin can be a metaphorical Salvation from opposition to a metaphorical God, or just salvation from some dire situation in life: And they believe in Heaven, or a reuniting with God in some way, but Heaven, or a reuniting with God, can be a metaphorical reuniting to a metaphorical God in a metaphorical Heaven, or no God or god at all. I'm not very bright so this is all confusing to me, it seems it's just some kind of "Feel Good" church as my sister in law used to say and you are saying that Jimbee68 is wrong.
Since I'm not a Unitarian Universalist (I've attended some of their services and meals and regularly attend meetings of their atheist subgroup) I can only answer on the basis of what I've read and what I've seen as an outsider. (Is there a Unitarian in the house??! On that basis, I'd say the answer to your question is Yes and No, or Some may, some don't. We'd have to define "soul" and "heaven", but Unitarian Universalists don't have dogmas. I suspect that many don't believe in an afterlife, but think of heaven metaphorically. What they reject is the idea that a loving God would consign any number of people to be tortured and burned for all eternity for anything they did or didn't do in this life. Progressive Christians don't believe that either. Those in the Sunday schools I attend at the Methodist and First Christian churches, likewise, have varying views, but most seem to be oriented toward this world. I personally have no belief in an afterlife, and think of heaven as a metaphor for what this world would be like if everyone followed the teachings and example attributed to Jesus in the gospels. I think of hell as a place where everyone did the opposite--"a war of all against all, in which life is brutal, nasty, and short. (Thomas Hobbes). Again, it depends of what you think is the boundary between "religion" and "philosophy"? As you know, I don't consider the line to be solid and bright. I do along with the scholars of comparative religion who follow the widely used "four Cs) identified by Catherine Albanese as criteria: creed, code, cultus (rituals), and community.What Is Religion? Like Buddhism and Daoism, it has a philosophical core, but has those additional features that set it apart from philosophies only. Unitarian Universalism is certainly light on the common "creed" part, but they do have a clear dedication to progressive values and leave it up to individual members to fill in the higher power part. I'll let their website explain it: "Traditional Christian beliefs often emphasize the concept of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. In Unitarian Universalism, however, salvation is not dependent on Christ’s sacrifice. Unitarian Universalists believe that individuals have the capacity for personal growth and spiritual development, and that salvation is achieved through one’s own actions and efforts to lead a good and meaningful life."
Don't sell yourself short. It is confusing to folks who are used to conventional religion with God as the Dude in the Sky. As their website explains: "Among Unitarian Universalists (UUs) and other religious liberals, conceptions range across a wide spectrum. Some reject God altogether and hold a strictly atheistic view of the universe. Others may use the term God to convey very different ideas, such as the creative power of evolution in the universe, or the power that makes transformation possible in our lives, or the ongoing power of love, or simply the ultimate mystery within which we all must live. And while few UUs think of God as a supernatural being, many understand themselves to be in some sort of personal relationship with God, however conceived."In other words, they place a high value on diversity and inclusion." From my observations, folks are attracted to UU because they're turned off by traditional religion, but want community with others who share their progressive values. I don't know what your sister-in-law thinks of as a "feel good" church (the opposite of a "feel bad" one?) but the UU members, like other churchgoers I know from a variety of denominations, derive emotional benefit from membership because the church is in sync with their beliefs and values. Some have a strong commitment to social activism, because it not only feels good but feels right (morally)and important to the rest of society.
Right. It needs some higher power or sense of spiritual meaning, but not necessarily deity(ies) in the traditional sense. And this isn't just my won quirky view, but one which is shared by scholars in the field of comparative religion who think it better fits the diversity of faiths which seem otherwise similar to the phenomenon of religion worldwide. See https://www.cengage.com/c/america-religions-and-religion-5e-albanese/9781133050025PF/ God is not one : the eight rival religions that run the world : Prothero, Stephen R., author : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Quest-invitation-Study-Religion/dp/0205191312 Otherwise we face the difficulty of saying those UU people may think they're reilgious, we know better, cuz even tho they may go to church and say their prayers at night, put their money in the collection plate, listen to sermons, sing hymns, and fight for causes they believe in with religious fervor, they don't believe in the Dude or Dudess in the Sky.Case closed Culture-bound structuralist conceptions based on earlier, Eurocentric concepts exclude functionally similar phenomena from the purview of religious studies. Before there were deities, there were spirits, and after there were deities, there was a Higher Power, Absolute, Ground of Being, etc.
Yeah. I say that a lot. In this case, I think I've adequately explained why I don't think the UUA is Christian, but it's a complicated subject. They let in Christians, as they do atheists, but it would probably be incorrect to call them one or the other, and they don't officially accept the label "Christian". Are Unitarian Universalists Christian? Examining The History And Beliefs Of The Liberal Religion - Christian Website Is Unitarian Universalism A Christian Religion? Let's Not Split Hairs Here! Are Unitarian Universalists Christian? | Tiny Pulpit Talks: 009 The last of these, a Youtube presentation by a UU minister, beats around the bush a lot, but tells us that roughly a quararter of them consider themselves Christian, some of the ministers aren't sure whether or not they are, or organization as a whole is. He likes to say he "practices the religion of Jesus", and he thinks the national church does, but "others might disagree". Does that answer your question? (Jimbee can certainly be forgiven for saying they are!) As the website of the UU Christian sub-group puts it, "Many Unitarian Universalists (UUs) have a relationship with Christianity. Whether we’re moving away from a rigid Christian upbringing or moving toward an all-loving God, whether we call ourselves “Christian” or simply admire Jesus, we have a place in Unitarian Universalism. Our faith tradition grew from Christianity, and one of the six sources we draw upon in our worship and religious education is Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God’s love by loving our neighbors as ourselves.” Christian Unitarian Universalists Amen.
Maybe this will be helpful in explaining to atheists why anyone would want to get involved in an organization like the UU. They don't necessarily dread the loss of heaven or the pains of hell. They don't have an imaginary friend to talk to, and to turn to when the going gets tough. What's the point? But the same question might be asked of atheists. Many Christians have the belief that atheists must be morally challenged, or lead quiet lives of desperation, devoid of meaning or purpose. It's my observation that that's not true. But why not? They find morality and meaning in different ways. Intuitively, they may sense as I do that peace, justice, love of neighbor, etc., are the kinds of values they want to dedicate their lives to--in varying degrees. I say, if they can do it without God, more power to them! Some, however, may find the road difficult alone, and prefer to share the journey with fellow travellers. Again, not an irrational decision. And they might want to add some ritiual to their meetings. I've been to secular gatherings that begin or end with some stylized words like weddings, birthdays, graduation ceremonies, flag salutes, celebrations of the life of a deceased person, the solstices, Earth Day or just regular meetings. The impulse to transform everyday events into special occasions marked by ritual seems to be a common, universal phenomenon. It is emotional, non-rational, but part of the psychic endowment that makes us human. The Role of Ritual in Secular Spirituality Explained Rituals, culture and history comparison between sacred and secular "This drive manifests not merely as a cultural accessory but as an essential component of collective life, providing frameworks through which communities interpret suffering, celebrate joy, and transmit values across generations." Rituals Without Myth: The Crisis of Meaning in Secular Civilizations Some may find these unnecessary or even annoying (I happen to be one of those). But more people seem to find them satisfying and important. As old myths and ideas of the sacred crumble, some folks have found equivalents in secular rituals. Unitarian Universalism and Progressive Christianity help to meet these needs, as well as providing a set of values and purpose in life, and community ties for social animals like us.
It was is acceptance of all which attracted me to the Unitarians for a time. Say, I even conducted some Earth Centric services at the chapel in Torquay, England. Most of the other services were multi-faith, something I dig and made them real interesting. I thought cos of this they'd be more popular. It seems the Unitarians get a pretty rough ride here in England and the BBC don't allow them to present the Daily Service when other faiths can.
So the UK is a Christian nation, correct? There is no separation of church and state, correct? It would seem that as the BBC is a governmental entity, correct?, that government does not permit the broadcasting of anything but Christian messages during this Daily Service deal.
Yep, humans sure are ornery. Two people in paradise, and they can't get their minds of what they don't have. But surely as an atheist you don't take that literally. I see it as a metaphor for the human condition--what Buddhists call Taṇhā (grasping ) Evolutionist E.O. Wilson tells us that humans have separate modules for selfish and societal (moral) needs, and that the two compete--much like the proverbial guys in the red suit and white robe in the cartoons. Evolutionary psychologist Steven Pinker agrees, and thinks that Judeo-Christian and psychoanalytic models do the most accurate job of addressing that. One aim of religions and ethical systems is to guide people in that internal struggle. Islam recognizes the Jihad al Akbar (Greatest Jihad) as the battle with self: "God give me the power to conquer myself". Yes, the "New Covenant" is mentioned in those sources, but they're a little vague on what the terms are. It's generally assumed that the Old Covenant was replaced by something less legalistic, but there are differences of opinion on what that is. So my reason for raising the question is that I don't see how it can be determined whether or not any Christian denominations are following "the basic principles that God set forth" if we can't agree what those are. My bet is that they're the core values attributed to Jesus"eace, social justice, and unconditional love for our fellow humans, including society's outcasts and least advantaged. Do any Christians try to follow those? Yes, some. Unfortunately, some folks who used the Christian label resemble the Pharisees that He opposed, while others are grifters who are profiting from people's gullibility. And of course many tune in mainly on Sunday mornings, while pursuing secular interests the rest of the week. The" New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah was the promise of a forthcoming one with the houses of Israel and Judah. And it would be written in their hearts and minds instead of having to be figured out from obscure readings in a Bronze Age/Iron Age book. That would be wonderful! And Luke is saying that already happened at the Last Supper? “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you” (Luke 22:20). As you mention, it also is referred to by Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:25:"This cup is the new covenant in my blood...." In fact, Paul's is the earliest mention of it as something Jesus gave us.. He says Jesus presented it at the Last Supper. Paul wasn't there, but claims he got his account from Jesus Himself in a vision. Mention of "blood" fits into Paul's blood sacrifice model of Jesus' mission, and the idea that Jewish law was no longer applicable to Christians. But what exactly is the covenant? Paul quotes Jesus as saying:"This cup is the new covenant in My blood". The covenant is the covenant of grace, forgiveness, and community established by Jesus' blood. But what are its provisions? Ironically, it's been a source of controversy among Christians: supersesionists vs. dual covenantists, preterists vs. those who think won't be clear until the Second coming, etc. Some interpret it as a commitment to remember his sacrifice and perpetuate the ritual of the eucharist. Others see it in broader terms as a mandate for inclusiveness among Christians and perpetuation of the values it represents. In the context of the rest of Paul's letter, he tells us that he was writing because the Corinthians were badly divided. Before he quoted Jesus, he reprimanded the Corinthians for class distinctions and exclusionary table fellowship. their class distinctions divide the Church; exclusionary in their table fellowship--especially in separating the wealthy and the poor. For Paul, the body of Christ is a mystical concept in which all of us are included. In John's gospel, Jesus gives His followers a "new commandment"(13:4) : "Love one another.".