Socialism Is The Future

Semantics

 

Idle

I’d say it depends on the type of socialism – it can be political, social and economic – as I’ve said in another post leftist philosophy has in a way moved on from 19th century ideas of classic socialism. I mean lefties are not blind to the failures of the bastard forms of communism that have been tried.

 

Traditionally, socialism is an economic system where the government controls the means of production, so obviously, the government must be amenable to the idea for it to work. We have a lot of socialistic programs in the U.S. such as the military, Medicare, parks, police, fire departments, public schools... but we're not considered a socialist nation.

 

Idle

Exactly

Socialism and socialist have put forward ideas and suggestions for creating a better society there were revolutionary and violent socialist that wanted to impose such ideas but many other lefties that took note of them and adapted them and pushed for them to one degree and another in a democratic and free societies.

For example if you look at the 10 ideas put forward in Marx and Engels Communist Manifesto many adaptations have been adopted in many countries around the world (including the US) but are not thought these days to be socialist or communist. Such things as progressive taxation and publically funded education, forms of inheritance tax and the regulation of banking and markets and even nationlisations are common now and accepted as normal.

 

Much depends on your definitions of Socialism and "repressive". Let's look at Portugal under Costa, Greece under Tsipras., the U.K under Clement Atlee, and France under Mitterand. Were they Socialist? I'd say yes. Significant components of the means of production and distribution were nationalized. Were they repressive? Not particularly. There were free elections, free speech, etc. Some might view high taxes as repressive. Were they successful? I'd say mostly not, although Portugal seems to be doing well.

 

Multiparty mate.

 

Rehab

Again man what the fuck are you going on about – have you got anything of any substance to say or are you just going to troll?

 

Was the expletive necessary? , it does show a lack of control and maturity

 

Rehab

LOL of course saying fuck was necessary, why to you fucking think I would say fuck for for fucks sake.

I live in Britain even the fucking queen says fuck, I mean where do you live man, in the real world or North Wales LOL

And is that it? You have nothing of any substance to give us but you get all faux righteous indignation of the use of fuck.

 

Indignation? Amusement actually at your look at me using grownup words
Y

 

People told me this for years. I left the US and found that most of their debates are not even discussed. The shock for me has been tax they sure take more but I also find I don't need to pay for things in my personal life as much. Society has resources for me already.

You really don't look at the US economy and it's peaks and valleys and see what an unsustainable system it is?

When has American capitalism worked and how much of the time is in a "recovery" where people are expected to ignore all the faults because freedom is so just so good?
It's worth it to starve as long Wal-mart sells you ammo and gas is $3 a gallon vs European $7.

 

Free market Capitalism works as it is intended. The class divide in America is only getting bigger. But still the poorest will defend the American system. The day they don't is when they realize someone like Bernie Sanders was not extreme. As long as people see unlimited capitalism as the only alternative to dictatorship they will fight reasonable changes in goverment.

The 1 Percent Are Cheating Us Out of a Quarter-Trillion Dollars in Taxes Every Year

“With the money that these tax cheats owe, this year alone, we could fund tuition-free college for all, eliminate child hunger, ensure clean drinking water for every American household, build half a million affordable housing units, provide masks to all, produce the protective gear and medical supplies our health workers need to combat this pandemic, and fully fund the U.S. Postal Service,” said Senator Bernie Sanders, who requested the CBO study. “That is an absolute outrage, and this report should make us take a long, hard look at what our national priorities are all about.”

 

Churchill's identification document as an Honorary Citizen of the United States
The Right Honourable Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill, KG, OM, CH,TD, DL, FRS, RA received numerous honours and awards throughout his career as a British Army officer, statesman and author.

 

Rehab

Why are you bring up Churchill?

Have you any actual counter arguments because as pointed out socialist ideas have been successfully adopted by many countries.

Distributive policies have been shown to increase general prosperity.

And as highlighted envy and ignorance seem to occur more often amongst right wingers than those on the left.

 

Thing is if someone has been subject to years of anti-Socialist anti-leftist propaganda then it can be very hard to think straight. I always find it funny that those on the right that show clear signs of been brainwashed to the point that they don’t question the ideas that have been spoon feed to them are the ones that are most likely to say that lefties don’t have open minds.

Such right woingers often prefer memes to honest debate

The thing is that the majority of the people on the left do research and think out the heritage of their views and understand the benefits and drawbacks of such things a Socialism, Communism, Marxism etc. Ideas should move on and adapt as criticisms are made and fault discovered as well as adapting to today’s issues and problems.

Also Socialism didn’t begin with Marx he was just a champion of a particular type of socialism and then it has to be remembered that socialism was a branch of anarchist thinking. In fact most people forget that Marx’s communism was meant to be a stepping stone to Anarchy as under communism the state and old ideas of governance were meant to ‘wither away’.

The thing is that the majority of left wingers have moved on, embracing good ideas and rejecting others as they went. I think the left wingers, the socialists, mutualists and anarchists of i800’s would not recognise todays left wing thinking.

Many of the rights ideas are from the 18th and 19th century but the thing is that a 18th century supporter of laissez-faire economics would find modern day neoliberalism very familiar. As to Social Darwinist ideas still held my many on the right these have been heavily (if no fatally) criticised as pseudoscientific junk.

I mean you only have to look at the plethora of ideas coming from the left for dealing with the pressing problems of the 21st century compared to the paucity coming from the right.

It’s not that they have little or no solutions - and what they have seem designed to make bad situations worse - it’s that many of them don’t even seem to be wanting to find any solutions.

So all the right seem to have these days is hollow sloganizing and attacks.

Think about it into relation to this forum when was the last time a right winger presented a thought through solution to any problem?

 

Gloomy

Ok so I’d know what you saw in this meme I’ll explain my view and why I think it right g

First the words – ‘the goal of socialism is communism’ supposedly a quote from Lenin

Well as said this is often a propaganda claim of many right wingers but as pointed out in this thread not all socialism is Marxist or Leninist or communist there are many forms of socialism .

Then you get the meme trying to associate Obama, Hillary and Bernie with Lenin, socialism and communism other right wing propaganda ploy.

Then you have the images of them seeming to saying that they wish people not to know that supposedly socialism is communism another right wing propaganda ploy.

So what we have here is right wing propaganda – why would anyone other than a right winger post it?

 

You mean just trolling

 

So basically you have nothing to contribute, you are basically useless to society, a hollow droid that gets fun out of posting crap you don't even have the wit to understand OK duly noted LOL

 

The meme is accurate though.

Socialism is communism on training wheels

 

Gloomy

It a mixture of humour and sadness at just how pathetic the right wing have become these days with nothing of any worth to give.

Imagine the guy in the pub who is acting like he is the real ‘lady’ magnet but all the women are really laugh at behind his back – it’s funny yet sad.