They ARE concentration camps

I never said anything like that I just laughed at the notion of "political science" as it's laughable. Ha-ha-ha

 

lol, lol, lol, yourself. You don't seem to be able to focus on the topic, which is conditions in detention facilities, unless it's to suggest we make them miserable so no one will want to get into one--which raises serious legal and moral questions. Why can't we just give them the minimum standards that courts require for prisoners, give them expedited hearings, and send most of them on their way back home if they don't qualify for asylum. That will require recrutiting more judicial officers, but we're not going to solve the problem without spending some money. You don't seem to understand the difference between illegal aliens and asylum seekers. Unless we try to stabilize the situation in the home countries, the waves of refugees will keep coming.

 

I'd wager there's more Lolz coming from my side of the computer though Mr. President Okiefreak. just like that post and the one I made a month ago about the same topic. You can't actually answer it with any legitimacy, realism or justification. Best just hand out the incoherent card that way you can justify your inability to answer the question and I know that you know that I know that you know that's exactly what's happening. Hence, typical.

 

I am glad you brought this up...as I DID BRING THIS UP...and was summarily ignored.

It is supposed to be legal for people entering at ALL border crossings for people to ask for asylum and help...and be given a way (paperwork) to complete the asylum process as well as be able to remain somewhere while this is processed.

How can this be made either illegal or ignored? How can a president (or anyone) make changes to laws that have been in place for decades?!?

How can people stand by and do nothing but talk about killing, torturing, and then going off on tangents about that these horrific places where parents and children are separated aren't really concentration camps because there aren't a pile of dead bodies there???

I will never grow old enough not to be shocked by the inhumanity of man.

 

The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

Trump’s Political Adviser Stephen Miller who is the architect of these draconian policies, his grandparents sought political asylum here in America from the Russian pogroms of the former soviet union.

He wouldn’t even be here now if America had enacted these policies during the last century.

 

If I understand what you're trying to say, it sounds like you're saying that the refugees coming here are coming "to be kept in the centres" in the expectation that they will be "a small obstacle to a better life". I'm really not sure what your point is. Are you saying they're coming in the expectation that they will only be detained for a short while and then let into the country? If that's their expectation, they may be disappointed, because they aren't entitled to get in unless they can show they were victims of government persecution, not just victims of crime or poverty. It may be their expectation that because the system is so overburdened, we'll relent and let them in. That's a calculated risk that may or may not happen. Or are you saying that if they are kept in humane prison conditions, the American citizenry will feel cheated because they're being fed and clothed while the average citizen isn't? The same logic then should hold for prisoners in the U.S. Do American citizens feel cheated because they aren't prisoners supported at taxpayers' expense? I don't think so. I know I don't.

 

I'm saying if you listen to interviews from refugees and immigrants it's not uncommon for them to think and believe that, life after detainee will be worth it. They come on boats knowing fully aware they're going to picked up and detained. That's the aim of it for a lot of them. They're escaping their country and know they're going to picked up, detained and they honestly believe that afterward it will reap more potential and benefits in their life but they aren't completely blind to what is going on or what might happen yet they admit to taking that risk as they believe once they're through it, life will be better.

So if you've got a problem now of illegal boat people and refugees, and they're quite aware of the conditions like they say, then what's going to happen if you get your 5 star facility? You're going to compound the problem with more illegal people arriving, now knowing the American government will look after them. So twice as many people show up the next year... What do you do with them? Build another 5 star facility? Sweet. Next year there's now even more of an increase, as there should be, because 5 star facilities are now an expectation.

What do you do then with the knowledge in the back of your mind that your own citizens aren't getting the same treatment or opportunities?

It should come as absolutely no surprise that certain percentages of the population revolt against, as they probably should too.because you have to ask the question.. Why is somebody else, an illegal immigrant mind you, getting better conditions than our legal citizens?

See what I'm getting at? It's all cool to sit there and say better conditions! But those conditions come at a cost from your own citizens too. In a perfect world it would all be equal, but it's not a perfect world and realistically it's not as easy as clicking your fingers and 5 star facilities and everybody is happy.

Now I'm not here saying concentration camps are a good idea or that what's happening is ideal or good, because I don't, but I'm asking what do you do about it when the people themselves are travelling to countries knowing full aware of what's about to happen to them? Because their extended families in America are not telling them oh you'll get through in a week... They're telling them how bad it is, but there's light at the end of the tunnel. And that bit of faith, that bit of light is enough encouragement for a family to travel to another country illegally with only hopes of opportunities on the other side. Now that's fucking brave.. That's sheer determination and willpower in ways I hope I never have to feel. It's sad but it's true.

But what can you do? Because you can just grant citizenship and let them in. Yeah that's ideal, but it's unfair too. It's unfair on your legal citizens and it's unfair on a migrant. There's housing. Living. Renting costs involved. They can't not have jobs, but you can't take jobs from your citizens and replace them either cause that's not right. There's actually so ju h more involved than simply letting someone stay in the country.

I'm just not sure people realise this. There's actually much more to think about from a humanitary point of view than trying to do the humane thing by giving someone freedom. It just doesn't work that easy. It's like people just think let em in, put em in a city and that's that, problem solved... But now they can't even afford to live. Can't get jobs. Nowhere to stay... Just to name a few problems and if you can resolve them, why isn't that treatment the same for your own citizens? It's just not clear cut.

 

First of all, we're not talking "five star facilities". We're talking about crowded, county jail standard facilities where there is still enough room to sleep, shower, protection from excessive heat and cold, and minimum food and water. We have somewhat different frames of reference, since I'm talking about the Central American influx at the U.S. border, and I think you have Europe in mind. Presumably, after their stay at the one-quarter star, bare bones facility, most will be shipped back where they came from, wondering why they made the arduous journey in the first place. I think you're right that entry may have been what the refugees were thinking. So it's up to the U.S. to provide the hearing examiners to process their cases as expeditiously as possible and send them back if they don't qualify. If their countries of origin become less dangerous and impoverished, and their efforts to gain entry prove futile, maybe they'll stop coming. I suspect that many of these refugees have been sold a bill of goods by open borders advocates and coyotes. Cracking down on those might not be a bad idea. It's never okay to abuse people or (especially) their kids even if convenient as a deterrent.

 

Exactly

 

Did you like my cool runnings meme?

I liked it.

 

If you put a lot of economic immigrants in those rural farm areas/small towns where there's work for a lot of them, but no houses... wouldn't that create a lot of jobs?

 

You're never going to find a logical argument on this issue. It has been turned into a political tool. Anyone who doesn't agree 100% to let 100% of the illegal aliens walk in freely and set up camp in America, is derided as a racist. Once the race card has been played, all logic and reason goes out the window. The left wields it like a weapon with great effect since republicans routinely cower in fear of being tarred with the race label and will agree to just about anything to avoid that association. Which they will be catching anyway on any other number of subjects.

What's preposterous is the way racism is seen as the cause for everything wrong in America. As if nobody makes bad choices at all, they just seem to be magically foisted onto them by all those mean old racist Americans. And don't say anything good about America because some leftist dolt will be right there to say something like "Yea, landing on the moon was cool, but after slavery, America is evil and deserves to be destroyed". It's this constant stream of assholes who rain on any parade they can find, no matter how small who are aggravating the problems at the border with their hateful rhetoric.

I've been hearing about the border issues and illegal aliens for my entire life. Of course my labeling them as Illegal Aliens (a term the rest of the planet uses to describe this same situation) will have me tarred as a "racist" as well. But then, that label would be applied by most bigots simply because I'm the dreaded "old white man" now. It doesn't matter that I was a baby during the civil rights era, I'm at fault for it by virtue of being old and white. I actually caused segregation and Jim Crow laws by being born with this dreadful lack of color. So any opinion I have on the issue MUST be the product of my natural-born tendency to be as racist as all of the other white people (even the leftists who slip up and say the wrong pronoun or whatever).

And that's how the club is used to beat down any argument about illegal aliens. It doesn't matter that I wouldn't want to see throngs of illegal Swedes packing border detention centers (especially seeing how their government treats Americans who defend themselves from "refugees" who stalk and assault them). As long as I object to illegal aliens waltzing across the border, I'm a racist. India solved their similar problem with Pakistan with a border barrier that can be seen from orbit. It reduced their terrorist incursions by over 90%. I wonder if terrorism will be the lynch pin that finally mobilizes ALL Americans into action on the border. But so far that has been pretty minimal, unless you're one of the peasants being preyed upon by the human traffickers (a relatively new term that used to be called "White Slavery").

I wonder how the left will react when the KKK decides to revamp their own border patrols. Will they send all those black clad antifa pussies to the desert with their milk shakes to deal with the problem head on? Of course I'm joking there. Even Pete Buttigieg knows there aren't enough KKK or white nationalists to patrol the whole border. Though, like other lying leftists, he claims they're our worst possible problem in the US. But then, he's pandering for the black votes he lost in his city by being such a passive wimp.

Round and round it goes.

 

Farming is being automated almost utterly. The small rural towns are being abandoned as food surpluses lead to record food waste in the US. Even at the peak of the season only about 4% of the farming workforce is accomplished by migrating people.

You're pining for a bygone era to come back. And we learned as the rust belt was automated that just isn't going to happen. Besides, why would they line up to come to such a horribly racist nation? What's their motivation? Only about 30% of the asylum claims are found to be valid and only about 10% of the invading illegal alien hordes are actually applying for asylum. The rest are just bum rushing the border.

[Cue the accusations of racism]

 

You seem to have this flawed idea that Americans are suffering in order to provide immigrants and asylum seekers with opportunities and this simply isnt true. America is and always has been a nation of immigrants and our society is richer for it. People are losing their jobs because their jobs are moving overseas, not because some guy from Honduras came and stole their job. There is room in the US economy for immigrants, there always has been.

And processing asylum claims is pretty routine stuff, I think we're all aware there's more to it than just allowing them to stay. Once they're approved they can apply for benefits and no, US citizens arent denied benefits just because some guy from Honduras is given temporary housing and food stamps until he finds a job. That's not how this works.

 

I'm not sure those numbers are correct. But even though farming work gets modernised too and less workers are needed than before, there still seem to be a lot of jobs there that a lot of Americans are not eager to take. I know a brasilian guy who just moved to Wisconsin. Legally though, which is of course not only the preferable way but imo too should simply be the only way. My point is; there are people willing to move to those areas (perhaps mainly new immigrants ) and if there are too less houses that's not only an obstacle but also creates job opportunities.

I was just sharing a thought i had.

 

Yeah but all my ideas are flawed so that's nothing new to have to hear.

 

That's literally been happening for 170 years here in Texas and in California. It started right after the days we were part of Mexico.

There are plenty of job training programs. Unemployment rate is 3%. Almost all 3% of those people aren't willing to pick fruit.

I don't think anyone is proposing open borders. UA maybe? So why would anyone argue against your open borders arguments.

There's nothing unrealistic about deportation as an alternative to incarceration. Incarceration costs far more, is cruel, and clearly doesn't dissuade migrants.

Incarceration is unrealistic. We're just create more debt to pay for it. It's not a tenable long term solution.

 

Isn't your idea there are no ideas and we should stick with the status quo of merciless incarceration?

 

Well, no. Not really. I was making an observational opinion about what I feel are certain obstacles or implications if a nation was to open its borders to illegal immigrants.

 

I don't disagree that a completely open border isn't a realistic idea in 2019.

Big picture I'm for the abolition of every nation, and letting feral dogs rule. But I don't think a lot of people are ready.