Is Nationalism A Good Thing?

I found a paper about it right off. My search terms were 'brexit nationalist hate group'. Error - Cookies Turned Off You could say it establishes nothing/is meaningless, but I feel like it shows that it's out in the open and people are articulating dissatisfaction. I'm personally appalled that the majority would be so vested in eliminating migrants and refugees! I think they're frustrated with tourists more than anything...

Anyway, I believe my observation to be astute and valid.

 

Asmo

But if they are accepted as part of the same national group by Nationalist as you contend why are such people picking out those of a differing ethnicity, culture or religion as a target over jobs?

 

Or both, if you’re into that sort of thing.

 

When you are born to fall on your ass, you are a born clown, whether you wanna join the human race or not. Go ahead, try and defy gravity, and you will slowly fall apart.

 

Nationalism looks good on paper, and certainly sounds right. But some of the worst crimes against humanity were committed by people who thought they were doing good for the fatherland. People in the political far right in particular seem to believe that everything will be peachy again if we just murder all members of Group X. Not so. The Nazis genuinely seemed to believe that eradicating the Jews will make Germany great again. American GIs who went to Viet Nam, thought they were saving America from the evil communists, when in reality, the average Vietnamese peasant was newer a threat to the American might outside his own turf. The problem with nationalistic thoughts is that they're used to justify all manners of violence and poor treatment of others. After all, those other guys are traitors who hate the fatherland and want to rot it by having different religious views and/or engaging in homosexual sex acts with other men. We must kill them to save our fatherland! Death to the traitors! It's the only way! So you get poorly thought out plans, like the Final Solution. Or Brexit.

Even as we speak, the British economy is suffering, as large companies abandon the country in droves, and Brexit isn't even finalized yet. And if Scotland were to secede, the once mighty union would be no more, dooming England to political irrelevancy. All because of the 52 percent's foolish thoughts about ditching the EU being the patriotic thing to do. Or whatever drove them. Some of them definitely seem to think that they could again be the empire where the sun never sets. Foolishness. And how many would suffer from this misguided nationalism if, say, the NHS were to collapse along with the Brit economy? Did you ever stop to think about the little guys? Extreme nationalism always ends badly, because nationalistic hubris breeds poor decisions and thinking. Just look at Trump and the Americans.

 

The majority sees illegal immigration as merely the wealthy corrupting the entire country, and taking away jobs from Americans, and exporting other jobs. Sadly, all roads lead to Rome and the US has such an overwhelming economic and military advantage over practically everybody that we can't export jobs fast enough to stimulate the world economy. China managed to build up their infrastructure to include an extensive highway system, but India and other countries are still in the last century and their economies cannot improve without infrastructure. India just had a heat wave of temperatures up to 122f and that's too much for people without even roads or air conditioning. Egypt is facing disaster as well, and around the planet people have been preparing for what is to come for over half a century. Too many will die, and there is no turning back, either our machines save us or there is no future because the machines can already easily replace most of us.

 

Ranko

Interesting that you bring up Vietnam because it began more of as a nationalist movement in the sense of wanting an independent Vietnam not under the control of the French.

The movement called the Viet Minh had fought on the side of the US against the Japanese with the promise that the US would support independence after the war.

On September 2, 1945, in front of a crowd of hundreds of thousands, Ho Chi Minh the leader of the Viet Minh declared Vietnam an independent nation. Here is the begin of that speech:

All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among them are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense, this means: All the peoples on the earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to live, to be happy and free.

The Declaration of the French Revolution made in 1791 on the Rights of Man and the Citizen also states: “All men are born free and with equal rights, and must always remain free and have equal rights.”

Those are undeniable truths.

Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam

*

The American turned their back on the Viet Minh and supported the French which lead to the Vietnam War.

The thing is that the politically broad-based independence movement of 1945 only became hard-line communist one of the 1970’s because of the ant-communist American involvement in the country (that was pushed through lies and deceit).

 

Ranko

I agree there was a certain amount of jingoism on the leaver side as well as long indoctrinated anti-immigration feelings (long pushed by the right wing media).

And I fear things will get worse if we drop out of the EU because all those that were taught to blame migrants for things that had nothing to do with immigration who have accepted that scapegoating will be open to accepting others as scapegoats.

And when things turn bad (as they are likely to do so) the leaders of Brexit are going to either accept the blame or blame others and if you look at those that pushed for Brexit you know exactly what they will do.

I’m afraid that things like identity and nationalism have already escaped from the Brexit Pandora’s box.

 

I must admit I am very surprised that up to now there are 6 votes YES in respect of 'Is Nationalism A Bad Thing', and 14 votes for NO.

Respect for that result and obviously I am in the minority.
Fair play.
I'm not whinging!

 

Asmo

I think there should be a word but not Nationalism.

I would wish for a name for my own feelings which I’d say was ‘a pragmatic love for the realities of my country’.

It is not ‘my country right or wrong’ because it is accepting that I know things can be wrong with my country but loving it enough to want to change it for the better.

And it is not my country over another’s I have lived in other countries and have loved that as well, I don’t see it as a competition were you have to pick a side and only support it, a person that likes football can appreciate a good match even if their side doesn’t win.

I think we need to become united to deal with the world’s problems that doesn’t mean loving my country less it means trying to love others as well.

Has anyone got a word for that?

 

A “tempered patriotism”

 

McFuddy

Patriotism - love of the fatherland - oh too close to patriarchy, I mean what would all my feminist friends say….

 

That really is fascinating @wooleeheron, but when you check you'll see we were talking about the majority in terms of the voters in Great Britain who have voted to leave the European Union.

 

dude its a left leaning site.

probably only 3 conservatives here. the lefties wont leave their clique and usually trolling to show off to their friends. the anon bit is pretty funny too.

 

The EU cannot fight its way out of a wet paper bag, and Britain would never have left the EU if not for the US supplying half the costs of NATO. We own their asses, and even their politicians comprehend the simple fact they either work for us or watch their peasants storm the palace with knives and pitch forks. If the US withdrew from NATO the whole middle east would move into the EU to see just who they can kill first.

 

that sounds pretty awful. I'm glad things remain under control then.

 

Its empire baby, and this train ain't stopping until she derails, possibly with a roast Duck dinner. Putin threatened nuclear war, but only because the idea he can't take it all with him haunts him.

 

It's actually one of the worst things.

 

By definition?

 

Motherland is an ok term too. Don't get your panties in a twist just because fatherland is still more common in use