Is it possible to be conservative and be a Hippy?

Rather naive belief Smurfette. Corporations and their global hegemonic aspirations lie at the very heart of our MIC (Military Industrial Complex), our manipulative interventionism in other nations' political processes and our overt and covert militant actions when all else is deemed ineffective at securing and prolonging our neo-colonialist control.

You might try watching "The Corporation" as a starting point in examining the global reality behind the repititiously reinforced media PR images with which the corporate sector indoctrinates the public on a daily basis.

 

your whole post is just a load of propaganda, and you are calling _me_ naive.
oh, and did the absense of corporations prevent the soviets from doing all the same things, and worse? and there were no corporations around until the last what, 100 years or so? were the things any better then?

 

The whole definition of conservative and liberal has been so convuluted, so as to give no real signifigant seperation. If you put your trust in the Democratic or Republican Party then you are worse off then you know.

Any real change has to be done by the people. We have to force the hand of government to work in such a way that it does not reach out with the hand of tyranny and strangle the life out of the people.

If the whole 60's movement has taught us anything it is this that governments act in their own best interests and it is we the people that have to convince that their best interest is us.

While you were cussing out that conservative in front of you it was a liberal that was sticking it in you and vice versa

There was a sexual reference in my post. Is that good enough?

 

Best you learn the meaning of propaganda. What I posted is not propaganda, its advice to a young and clearly worldly inexperienced person who fails to see the true nature of corporatism and the means it uses to advance itself globally, including inducements to war.

As for the Soviet Union, there were indeed corporations, my dear. These were merely state owned. There is very little difference ultimately between the evil aparatus sold to us in the West as the "Great Communist Menace" and the supposedly all-benevolent socio-economic panacaea "Capitalism", which our own successive generations have been indoctrinated to believe in.

Both models propagate(d) themselves on fear and exploitation, the capitalist model has just managed to gain greater critical mass globally. Nevertheless it remains rife with its own internal contradictions, its incremental concentration of wealth and power into the hands of precious few at the expense of the great many and its reliance on force and misinformation to maintain control.

The fact that this is in essence the same as in ages past actually supports my position and should urge you to look beyond the shiny promises and flashy brand imaging to see how feudal the system remains in principle.

Watch The Corporation to get a primer if you really have an interest in challenging your presumptions.

At any rate, such further discussion belongs in politics not here.

 

well your post was a bit too loaded with slogans for me to call it otherwise.
anyway i see that your definition of a corporation is quite a bit different from mine, so there isnt much to argue about, really.

well i am a first generation american... my parents ran away from the wonders of socialism. they seem to like capitalism a lot more so there has to be some difference

yup.

 

exactly.

 

Well its clear then that the dazzle of PR has blinded you to the reality of the similarities behind the brand imaging. Either remain mesmerised by the fancy packaging or open you eyes and look at the evils which lay behind the shiny promise.

And sorry, hon, but I was born and raised in Capitalist society and have travelled quite extensively in my years (including the Eastern bloc prior to the collapse of the USSR) and I am neither naive nor are your suggestions that I don't know the meaning of the term corporation valid. A corporation is universally consistent legal nomenclature regardless of whether the profits therefrom go to a select few private persons or to a state body.

Again, you can continue to argue based on presumptions or you can dare to inform yourself. Ultimately, our corporations perpetrate far greater global evil than anything your parents might endured under Soviet repression. Hippies arent the only ones with the social conscience to recognise that reality.

 

i'm not saying that your definition is wrong (i dont think a definition can be wrong, its just a definition), i am saying that it is different from mine. and we cant argue if we dont have the same definitions.
and under your definition all i said was that it is stupid to bash one kind of corporation while praising another (the government which for you is also a corporation).

 

Since you never asked for definitions nor ventured your own you cannot make such a claim that there is any difference.

Yes, Western governments are in essence corporations. The US federal government and its constellation of connected big business interests (Arms, Energy, Agriculture, etc.) have long been known as "Americorp". As for the USSR and other command economies, my reference to corporation referred to the companies themselves. I only pointed out that those who profit from those companies' activities is not the determinant of their categorisation as "corporations".

I praised neither, and in fact condemn both. Please do not assign value judgements to my arguments which are not clearly asserted.

Nevertheless, your initial claim that corporations do waste our money on war is a false notion which I suggest you research to better inform yourself.

 

my definition is quite standard, a corporation is a company like walmart or general motors. they make things and sell them to get their profits.

governments do not make anything, they take away your money by force so that they can waste it on something you most likely wouldnt willingly pay for. like a war. or something. and i do not think this happens just because corporations (companies) bribe them, if thats what you mean.

 

You have much to learn then about the interconnection between Multi-National Corporations, aka Trans-National Corporations, and the use of military force. War itself is a huge business for US interests.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/silver.htm

I also suggest you infrom yourself on The Federal Reserve system, the very engine of global US Dollar hegemony. The Fed is a private corporate entity and as such is one of the key puppetmasters of the government itself.

The reality behind all the enticing media-fed images is far more corrupt than you realise.

 

sorry, but where did I say that the system was not corrupt? It looks like you arguing with someone else.

 

You suggested from the outset that corporations have nothing to do with war; a claim that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the way the Capitalist system functions and seeks to extend its control globally.

 

Wow, that's not liberal, that's fascist... are you aware that there are still barely literate people in this country (meaning they know enough to know how to sign their name and read a stop sign) that are ignorant of contraception? And it's a LOT of people. I mean, look at this site, our own forums, with people that can read and use computers, and they still think that you ovulate during your period? Do you want to sterilize all of them because they were taught Abstinence Only in school or because they slept through Health Class? Because people are ignorant, because it serves the government's best interest to keep people ignorant, you would advocate sterilizing this "unfit" population?

How about instead of advocating mandatory surgery and sterilization for the economically oppressed, advocate literacy programs and contraception outreach programs. And to simply say that you are all for that stuff is clearly not enough, because you still are not aware of thost sad facts, or would you still say something so cruel?

My friend interned in Newark, NJ in a grammar school. There were FIVE YEAR OLD boys telling her coworkers, "I know a first grader who will give you head for $5." WHAT?!?!?! FIVE YEAR OLD PIMPS! And this is the sad truth, and there are many reasons for it. Is it the fault of the Five Year old? Is it his 17 year old mother's fault for not teaching him better, when she probably still doesn't know any better? Or his 28 year old grandmother's fault? But maybe we should just sterilize these eleven year old pregnant girls, because they must just be horrible ghetto sluts, right? I mean, why else would they, at ELEVEN years old, be getting pregnant????

My point is: it's never so simple to say that the 2nd unplanned pregnancy, you get sterilized, because there are myriad of factors that contribute to it... Perhaps CONSERVATIVE means wanting to take the easy way out and not try to combat the underlying factor but attack the results?

Drugs and fucking are one thing, but if you are adamant to judge your fellow human beings and advocate butchering them against their will, what in your philosophy makes you a Hippy? You like tie dye and rainbows? You don't like to bathe? Oh, I see!

 

oh, yeah, sure, conservatives SAY they're for limited government and less federal government.... but tell that to the bushes, both george and jeb! there is MORE government control now than there has ever been... and what about jeb wanting to look into terri schiavo's ex husbands past to see if he in fact waited to call for an ambulance when she collapsed 15 years ago!! i mean, WTF, why is the state government getting involved in shit like that?

conservatives claim less government, but they're just talk talk talk... fuckers...


so, to answer your question,NO, i do NOT think you can... if you're a hippie then you should be about love and peace, not about attacking every freaking country that disagrees with the usa.... i mean, i can't wait for bush to ATTACK the netherlands now.....after all, those two dutch father-son judges are now being held under suspicion for the murder of that alabama girl....ok, i'm being sarcastic.

 

my thoughts exactly. be who you are and if you want a label then let someone else make it for you.

 

No, I did not say that. I said:

Anyway this is way off topic here.

 

I was referring the latter section of that same post, which you conveniently left unquoted in your post above...

.

And again youd best inform yourself of the many corporations you seem to believe have no vested interest in war (which we wage for resource, land, and political control). Corporations such as auto manfacturers, agricultural companies which provide the many supermarket products you take for granted, fertiliser companies (takes natural gas and lots of it to make fertiliser), plastics firms (takes oil to make plastic), energy companies, arms manufacturers (which happen to own everything from computer firms to television networks) just to name a few examples covering a wide range of everyday products and services you take for granted.

The interconnectedness of it all and the political power they wield over our system of governance betrays your naive beliefs. If you have any concern, you would do well to read and investigate further on the matter starting with the links and suggested documentary in my earlier posts.

 

OMFG.

A corporation can _NOT_ make a war. It needs a government to do so for it. Same goes for wasting tax money. Influence does _NOT_ equal authority. even if I agreed with all that you are saying about vested interests, what would it change? It would just mean that we have a corrupt government, and the best thing to do in this situation would be to take as much money and power away from it as possible.

and what, all of them have a vested interest in war, at the same time? Which war, by the way?

 

I truly despair at the willful refusal to go and read even that which was presented. Obviously you wish to cling to your notions.

Of course it is governments which decalre war, but you obviously have a very compartmentalised understanding of how our system functions, how and by whom government decisions are guided and whom are the beneficiaries of those decisions, especially in waging war.

Corporations do not exist in some neatly separated reality, they are part and parcel of the process. Examine how many Congressional Reps, Senators and Administration officials (incl: Presidents and VPs) move from industry to public office and back again.

As for which wars, the roster of our military interventions in the post WWII era alone reads like a shopping list. Take your pick and examine the key interests served in each context. As for wasted tax money, just whose money do you think it is being funneled to corporations like Haliburton, Bechtel, and a host of private unaccountable military contractors (read: private mercenary firms),to name but a few, in Iraq (for an immediate example) by the billions of dollars?

This is but one means, however, of advancing those corporate aspirations around the globe, the other is through the system which is sold to the public as benevolent foreign "aid". It is anything but benevolent and certainly not "aid".

But this clearly falls on deaf ears. so I give up.