A Few Questions For All Trump Supporters.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Meagain, May 10, 2017.

  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    When you use the term Democracy and claim that the U.S. is a Democracy you are being intellectually careless.
    We are not a Direct Democracy, which is what the term Democracy means unless you want to intellectually lazy, which most people are when referring to the U.S.
    There are many types of democracies.

    If you wish to properly refer to the government of the U.S. it's a constitutional federal republic, or if you prefer a representative democracy based on a constitution.

    As far as the U.S. being a Christian nation, again you are being intellectually careless. Just because there are a lot of Christians doesn't make it a Christian nation in a legal sense.
    Using your logic I could call it a football nation because there are a lot of people who follow football.
    However, nothing in the constitution about football.
     
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  2. Crystal_Nocked

    Crystal_Nocked Members

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    Hmm...that's an overgeneralization. And you need to recall that the South started it by needlessly seceding when Lincoln got elected as potus. And why did they secede?

    They thought Lincoln was gonna abolish slavery.

    Any way you cut it, the war was about slavery. Revisionist history cannot change that, now matter what type of spin they want to put on it.

    I'll be happy to debate this in depth in a separate thread if you wish to begin one.

    Cheers
     
  3. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Then explain why every other slavery based nation was able to end slavery peacefully.
     
  4. Crystal_Nocked

    Crystal_Nocked Members

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    What?

    I don't understand your question. And am not sure your claim is correct, either. I'd have to research it. But I doubt you're right. Remember that even if some slavery protesters were killed or killed others, even in limited civil skirmishes, then it cannot be said that nation's slavery was ended peacefully.

    But I still don't get your post. And what it had to do with my claims that our civil war was fought primarily over slavery.

    Also....we are waaay off topic. Start another thread if you want to talk history.
     
  5. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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    Not going to start a new thread. Revisionist history has nothing to do with it.
    Salavery was an afterthought. The north was concerned about the economic impact of secession. You can't deny that.
     
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  6. Crystal_Nocked

    Crystal_Nocked Members

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    I can and will deny it.

    The North was more concerned with the human rights issues of slavery in the South. The South's prosperity and success with cotton and tobacco posed no threat to the North. They were not in some sort of competition. Why would you think that? LOL. While not all Northerners were abolitionisists, enough were to begin a serious movement to put an end to slavery.

    Lincolns was not going to free the slaves right away..this is fact. He was of the mind "to let our erring Southern sisters learn their own lessons." This is how the South over-reacted when they began secession when Lincoln was elected POTUS in November of 1860. And as is usually the case with war, it was a small handful of Southern, wealthy plantation owners who were the most distraught over Lincoln's election. The most wealthy 1-5% that owned the big explanations with the most slaves. Rich men cause war..poor men fight it. This is an old maxim that still holds true.

    The South was also concerned that the new states that would soon be added to the Union would be made Free States. This proably WOULD have been the case, as Lincoln alluded to this idea before. IT was shown after the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the bloodshed that followed that the notion of allowing states to settle the matter on their own was not a viable option. (read about "Bloody Kansas" if you need to).

    You are simply parroting the tired old Southern apologist "Lost Cause" mentality. Blaming the North for the War. I bet you even call it the War of Northern Aggression sometimes. LOL What a joke. As Sherman said..."the lost cause argument is just plain biased propaganda. The truth is that in the history of War, no Nation or peoples ever fought for a WORSE cause than did the South."

    Couldn't have said it better myself..

    Are you sure you don't want to do a thread on this? I would really relish the idea of busting up your Lost Cause bullshit in a formal debate!

    Cheers.
     
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  7. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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    Not wasting my time, I'm out.
     
  8. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    the cotton gin and other technological advances ended slavery more than anything else.



    and who the fuck goes around "liking" all their own posts?
    haven't figured out the buttons yet, eh Krystal?
     
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  9. Beutsecks

    Beutsecks Large Rooster

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    An interesting question. Especially when you call out "Slave-based" which the fledgling US was not. But which nations actually were based on slavery? I also find it amusing in a fatalistic kind of way when I see people trying to assume that the North had some kind of moral high ground on the issue of slavery when so much of it originated there. Not only that, but when Lincoln emancipated slaves, it was only the ones in the South, the northern states got to keep their slaves and even made fat bounties recovering escaped slaves for southern slaveholders.

    It became a cottage industry with even some northern factions lying to slaves about helping them get to Canada, then directing them toward desolate collection spots using a repainted compass and counterfeit map. This crap went on for decades and even occurred in some of the neutral "free states" (like Winston county) during the civil war. So I guess you could say slavery had some part in the war, but calling it the cause is really a reach.

    And blaming southerners to this very day is nothing short of moronic and yet, I see it on new forums almost daily. Biz-fucking-arre.
     
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  10. tumbling.dice

    tumbling.dice Visitor

    I'm not sure I agree with this statement Dick. I've been reading up on The Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union, basically the 'Declaration of Independence' of South Carolina. Slavery seems to have been foremost on their minds. The declaration stated the primary reasoning behind South Carolina's declaring of secession from the U.S., which was described as "increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Immediate_Causes_Which_Induce_and_Justify_the_Secession_of_South_Carolina_from_the_Federal_Union

    I agree that blaming southerners today is ridiculous, but I find it equally ridiculous when someone flies the Stars 'n Bars and claims some kind of heritage thing. I have German ancestors but I don't think of Nazism as part of my shameful heritage. The past belongs in the past; we have plenty of problems today to concern ourselves with.
     
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  11. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    As someone with a background in history holy shit no. Slavery is the answer a first grader gives fore the reasons of the war. But it's true there were economic factors. And even in the north the black man was not respected enough to go to war over. Sure he was not a slave but he was a second class citizen. There was a small number of people who felt different. The "hippies" of the day similar to the people who want to protect whales now. A minority among people who feel they are just not worth it.
     
  12. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The American Civil War was a war of differing cultures which continues to this day.

    The North was an industrial culture, the South an agrarian one.
    The North didn't need slaves they had machinery and an economy based on manufacturing, the Southern economy relied on manpower to fuel it's growing of raw materials such as cotton. They had no tractors or other machinery to replace the manpower needed to plant and harvest their crops.

    The north could afford to feel that the institution of slavery was morally wrong, the South couldn't.
    The federal government sided with the North and wished to stop the expansion of slavery into the newer western states and it's desire to end slavery as most of the rest of the world had already done so.

    The Republican party opposed the western expansion of slavery and when Lincoln was elected without a single Southern electoral vote..they succeeded.

    The cultural war continues except the sides have flipped and now the Republicans are the conservative, non federal governmental proponents and the Democrats, simply put, have assumed the old Republican role.
    We can see this, in my view, by the way the rural agricultural areas vote conservative Republican and the Urban technological cities are Democratic.
     
  13. Crystal_Nocked

    Crystal_Nocked Members

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    Gee, what a suprise.

    LOL
     
  14. Crystal_Nocked

    Crystal_Nocked Members

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    Thanks for the standard, boilerplate paste job. LOL

    I would add that the reason the south is not Democratic today is because LBJ lost it with his Great Society civil rights and integration platforms during his ternure in the mid 60s. This is why the flip, which the article you pasted didn't mention.
     
  15. Crystal_Nocked

    Crystal_Nocked Members

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    Nope...still feeling my way around.

    But you shouldn't worry sbouyt what I do, pally.

    And its Christal.

    Not Krystal.


    Cheers.
     
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  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Nothing pasted.

    The major premise comes from Alvin Toffler's The Third Wave, 1980 , which is extremely prophetic.
     
  17. Beutsecks

    Beutsecks Large Rooster

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    I prefer we let the Confederate flag nuts fly the flag all they want. Same as flying the Mexican, Cuban or Anarchist's flags. It lets us all know whom to avoid without having to wait for their words. As for heritage, how can that be denied? What is served by denying it? If they want to glorify their loss, let them have at it. Consider the symbol Christians use, a torture device of all things. Trying to wipe out anyone's history is on par with the shit ISIS did in Palmyra.
     
  18. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Apparently not anymore sense Comey himself while under oath said President Trump wasn't under investigation.
     
  19. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Which all of them found nothing.
     
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Not then.
    Seems he is now.

    Not to mention his son, et al.
     
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