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Antifa Communist Connection




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#11 puff n stuff

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Posted April 26 2017 - 03:22 AM

the history of antifascist action has ties to European leftist movements... This is failry well known, and not a "conspiracy"

I can't believe America is so rabidly anti-socialist that this genuinely contributes a "conspiracy". I guess McCarthyism never really went away. Dem commies is comin' to git yer....


I would like to know where you think this should go? What section? Keep in mind that mods change thread titles because they are not gender inclusive on this forum. They also move them to other sections. Apparently you can not make a thread that is strictly about women or men anymore. It must be gender inclusive in all the spectrums, which I saw happen yesterday in a thread title.

This area seems to go unmoderated. I assumed this is why it is in this section.

Edited by puff n stuff, April 26 2017 - 03:24 AM.

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#12 autophobe2e

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Posted April 26 2017 - 04:42 AM

I would like to know where you think this should go? What section? Keep in mind that mods change thread titles because they are not gender inclusive on this forum. They also move them to other sections. Apparently you can not make a thread that is strictly about women or men anymore. It must be gender inclusive in all the spectrums, which I saw happen yesterday in a thread title.

This area seems to go unmoderated. I assumed this is why it is in this section.

 

I don't care where it goes, I wasn't suggesting it be moved, i was just pointing out that it's a touch daft.


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#13 puff n stuff

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Posted April 26 2017 - 04:54 AM

I don't care where it goes, I wasn't suggesting it be moved, i was just pointing out that it's a touch daft.

Sorry, I was not suggesting it be moved, I was simply pointing out, obviously poorly, that this forum is extremely left wing and to suggest that ANTIFA are fascists, which I believe they are, some would call it a THEORY without any validity.

America is not anti-socialist. I would not simply refer to ANTIFA as socialists. What is odd is that many left wing socialists claim to be anti fascists while supporting a fascist groups like BLM, TYT, ANTIFA, whose leaders in the USA ANTIFA admit that the use fascist means.

How can someone be anti fascist while doing things that fascists do?

Edited by puff n stuff, April 26 2017 - 05:02 AM.

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#14 autophobe2e

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Posted April 26 2017 - 06:08 AM

Sorry, I was not suggesting it be moved, I was simply pointing out, obviously poorly, that this forum is extremely left wing and to suggest that ANTIFA are fascists, which I believe they are, some would call it a THEORY without any validity.

America is not anti-socialist, some are. What is odd is that many claim to be anti fascists while supporting a fascist groups like BLM, TYT, ANTIFA, whose leaders in the USA ANTIFA admit that they use fascist means.

How can someone be anti fascist while doing things that fascists do?

 

I don't think that this forum is particularly left-wing, I think that there are a quite a variety of views represented here. As a left-winger I often feel that the forum is a very right-wing place, but I suspect that this is a matter of perspective. Looked at obectively there tend to be as many overtly right-wing as left wing posts going up, and a roughly equal amount of support for each. I know the incident that you're referring to, and it seems pretty clear to me that this was an isolated case of a mod taking personal offence to a really daft (possibly trolling) question, rather than an expression of a new authoritarian regime here.

 

It's also completely hysterical to claim that this incident means that it is impossible to pose any question that is not gender neutral. There are entire sections of the site that are specifically gendered, and people ask questions that are gendered outside of those all the time.

 

As for America being anti-socialist, as an outsider, I think attitudes towards left-wing radicals there are relatively negative compared to European attitudes. I've seen several people (both private individuals and media representatives) refer to someone as a "socialist" as if the phrase is a slur that instantly devalues their position. The overton window in America is decidedly to the right of that in my country (although I'm sorry to say that our window has been creeping to the right basically since 1979 and is on the verge of taking a HUGE step in that direction.)

 

I have been personally (albeit tangentially) involved in Antifa shenanigans on this side of the pond. In counter-demonstrations organised against far-right and neo-NAZI groups like Britain First, EDL and other BNP/EDL splinter groups. The main purpose of these activities is to represent physical opposition to the spread of far-right ideologies in Britain and to show solidarity with minorities that Far-right demonstrations are trying to intimidate. I lost faith in it, but I still have some sympathy for their arguments.

 

One thing I can tell you is that, much like almost all groups of this nature, Antifa operates with a flat structure. This means that even if an Antifa "Leader" says "I am actually a fascist and support fascism and i do fascist things all day, babydoll" they are still only speaking for their specific cell, which might only consist of a few people, or they might just be talking shite on their own, with no backing from anyone. anyone can call themselves Antifa. Be very wary when right wing press release a story of that goes: "Antifa leader says something discrediting about Anitfa" because they have probably gone to great lengths to pick out someone with very little practical power and are going to try to convince you that they are some sort of Antifa Czar who speaks on behalf of all Antifa groups in the whole of America, rather than the views of them and their three mates who meet in the town hall annex  every other Tuesday. Not the hall itself, just the annex.

 

Controversial Antifa policies like No platform are controversial within Antifascism too, there's heated debate within the movement, with most liberal antifascists being against such practices. but the militants go ferrit, grab the headlines, press runs with it and suddenly that's what "all antifascist groups are doing". The one disadvantage of a flat structure is that you can't counter a press narrative about you.

 

There is an argument that antifaideology is illiberal, and antifascists accept this, but being illiberal is not the same as being fascist.

 

Just be wary, and don't get duped, is all I'm saying.


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#15 puff n stuff

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Posted April 26 2017 - 08:24 AM

I won't get duped, not all liberals are fascists and not all liberals are extreme. Not all republicans are neonazi and not all neonazi are trump supporters. Don't get duped either. Most are middle of the road and might lean slightly left or slightly right.

Political correctness has gone so far in this country that you could argue that LGBTQ is not inclusive in this country, that is offensive to someone.

America has gone overboard with the politically correct, so let's take it to the next step. I have had my language corrected for using he or she in reference to someone who went home for the day. How about we write s/h/it for everyone now? Lets all be shit! LAWL

No more awards for genders, no awards for specific ethnicities, film awards, only one best film and no foreign film awards, no gender or ethnic specific scholarships, because this is not inclusive.

Everything and everyone has become offensive to someone.
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#16 autophobe2e

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Posted April 26 2017 - 08:45 AM

I won't get duped, not all liberals are fascists and not all liberals are extreme. Not all republicans are neonazi and not all neonazi are trump supporters. Don't get duped either. Most are middle of the road and might lean slightly left or slightly right.
 

 

Antifa aren't liberals, they are (usually) opposed to liberal ideology on several key issues, but not being liberal doesn't mean that they are fascists.

 

I find myself out of place among antifascistas for being too liberal on certain issues. Antifa and liberal antifascist activists (like UAF in England), often find themselves at loggerheads.

 

The "not all Trumpsupporters/liberals/republicans" are XYZ argument is perfectly fine, and i agree that it is reductive to label people in such simplistic terms, but these things are best understood in terms of the overton window.

 

Not everyone who voted for Donald trump is a Neonazi but his election moves the window of acceptable policies and mainstream public discourse to the right, thereby increasing the legitimacy of extreme-right organisations. Increases in hate crimes and organised far right demonstrations are usually good indicators that your overton window is shifting to the right.

 

Antifa No platform/disruption policies are essentially about operating at the fringes of that window, preventing extreme-right groups from organising and recruiting, particularly among working people, and preventing far right figures from gaining platforms that might increase the percieved legitimacy of their views (thereby shifting the window even further to the right).

 

As to what you say about PC culture, my experience of antifa is that, for the most part, they couldn't give a fuck about political correctness (or at least it cetainly isn't a focus for them). They are interested in direct action and leave the politics of language to the liberals.


Edited by autophobe2e, April 26 2017 - 09:25 AM.

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#17 puff n stuff

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Posted April 27 2017 - 03:21 AM

fascists are left wing, they are not right wing, ANTIFA is pro fascist, pro marxist (left) pro socialist, Marxist, fascists are liberal. there is nothing anti about them. Fascists are not right wing.

Fascists are political.

A true antifascist group would be right wing.

Edited by puff n stuff, April 27 2017 - 03:22 AM.

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#18 6-eyed shaman

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Posted April 27 2017 - 07:11 AM

Left wing anarchy is a paradox. You can't have a zero government society with price controls, heavy market regulations, and identity politics without a form of bureaucracy. So I laugh at Antifa members who consider themselves true anarchists.

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#19 autophobe2e

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Posted April 27 2017 - 08:43 AM

Left wing anarchy is a paradox. You can't have a zero government society with price controls, heavy market regulations, and identity politics without a form of bureaucracy. So I laugh at Antifa members who consider themselves true anarchists.

 

"Left and right" wing are simplified terms which cover a wide array of dissenting opinions.

 

Among anarchists Anarchism is often more commonly referred to as Libertarian socialism, I.e. a desire for a situation in which workers own the means of production and take decisions through direct democracy, but aren't governed by a state. Instead they favour decentralised, flat organisational structures (worker's councils, trade unions, citizen's committees etc.). They reject the state socialist   proposition of a state that governs the economy and dictates to people.

 

This is "Left wing" in the sense that it involves the dismantling of wage labour systems and traditional models of capitalism, but is different from many other left wing schools of thought in that it is explicitly opposed to the idea of a governing state.

 

It is when dealing with the differences between specific group ideologies that simple terms like "Left and Right wing", although useful in other contexts as a means of understanding, begin to fall apart. A libertarian socialist is violently opposed to a leninist or social democrat, but they would still be broadly categorised as "left wingers" in the dialectic because they share anti-capitalist tendencies, reject traditional institutions of power, are interested in class struggle and reject nationalism, among other similarites.

 

However, the statement "anarchists are right wing" really doesn't hold much water at all. Inasmuch as the phrase "right wing" has any meaning, it means a belief in social order and heirarchical systems of governance, as well as a belief in traditional institutions.

 

And inasmuch as the term "anarchist" has any meaning, it means the exact opposite of that.

 

The term "Right wing" comes from the French revolution, where those in favour of traditional institutions, such as the monarchy, would be seated on the right. the right wing is not where anarchists would be seated. Not then, and not now. The idea that what is referred to as " the right wing" are anarchists because they favour deregulated, laiseiz-faire capitalism is completely wrong-headed. Laissez-faire capitalism is justified because it is viewed as a  reflection of the natural social order, of pre-existing inequalities that are only laid bare by capitalism, rather than created by them. this is "Right-wing" dogma in a nutshell.

 

A "Right wing antifascist" as proposed by Puff and Stuff would be an interesting proposition, because being Antifascist is primarily a rejection of nationalism, and nationalism and national identity are central tenets of pretty much all "Right wing" philosophies.


Edited by autophobe2e, April 27 2017 - 10:40 AM.

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#20 Barros Serrano

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Posted May 11 2017 - 12:46 PM

So much confusion about political ideologies...

 

Many don't know the difference between liberals, socialists and communists.

 

Anti-fascist action of course is a good thing, since fascism is such a bad thing.

 

Antifa is like certain other communist groups in the U$A who show up at demonstrations and incite violence, thinking this furthers their revolutionary aims. In fact what is accomplished is to give the Police an excuse to riot on the protesters, and to give the Press an excuse to vilify them.

 

Thanks, but no thanks. Vanguardist elitist arrogant dilettantes like Antifa and their ilk do us no favors by showing up at demonstrations. They should be quickly shut down by the protesters, before they manage to accomplish their violent incitement.


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