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How Many More Ages Before We See What We Were?




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#21 BlackBillBlake

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Posted March 10 2017 - 10:27 AM

 

 

only a culture that respects the dependence of our very existence

on the well being of the natural environment, 

has any chance of insuring humanity's future.

 

 

The thing is, how can we ensure enough people realize this before it is too late.



#22 themnax

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Posted March 10 2017 - 11:59 AM

The thing is, how can we ensure enough people realize this before it is too late.

i don't think we can ensure anything. 

 

all i know of to do, is try to illustrate what people could have, if their poorly thought out priorities weren't destroying it.

 

there's different ways to do this, depending on what talents different people have,

(visual art, music, politics, writing, probably many others)

 

of course that leaves people free to misinterpret,

but anything they're not, too many knee jerk reject even considering out of hand.

 

there are tipping points we have already past that it is too late for,

but we don't know how many yet remain that we may not yet have.

 

anything we expect can always turn out different then we expect it to,

but those who choose to bury their heads

in assuming nothing will come of what we've been careless about,

are completely whistling in the dark.


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my nation is the imagination

this is the dawning of the age of zootopia

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#23 MeAgain

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Posted March 10 2017 - 12:34 PM

Why do we never get an answer
When we're knocking at the door
With a thousand million questions
About hate and death and war?

 

 

To learn as we grow old

The secrets of our souls.


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"Oh, how sweet it is to hear one's own convictions from another's lips"

~ Goethe

 

 


#24 NoxiousGas

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Posted March 10 2017 - 12:56 PM

Because the truth is hard to swallow, that's the war of love is for...

 

and when you stop and think about it you won't believe it's true that all the love you've been giving has all been meant for you...

 

and if you could see what it's done to me to lose the love I knew could safely lead me to the land that I once knew...


"Do the walls close in and suffocate ya,
you ain't got no friends and all the others they hate ya,
does the life you been leading gotta go?"

"get your shoes and socks on people,
it's right around the corner"

"the poodle bi-i-ites,
the poodle chews it"

#25 BlackBillBlake

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Posted March 10 2017 - 12:56 PM

i don't think we can ensure anything. 

 

all i know of to do, is try to illustrate what people could have, if their poorly thought out priorities weren't destroying it.

 

there's different ways to do this, depending on what talents different people have,

(visual art, music, politics, writing, probably many others)

 

of course that leaves people free to misinterpret,

but anything they're not, too many knee jerk reject even considering out of hand.

 

there are tipping points we have already past that it is too late for,

but we don't know how many yet remain that we may not yet have.

 

anything we expect can always turn out different then we expect it to,

but those who choose to bury their heads

in assuming nothing will come of what we've been careless about,

are completely whistling in the dark.

When I said 'ensure' I was only really using a turn of phrase. But actually thinking about it, I agree that in a total and absolute kind of way we can't ensure anything.

Still, the state manages to ensure that most people pay their taxes.

The media manages to ensure that people's minds are filled with junk and distortions of all kinds.

Supermarkets ensure that every shopping trip means a pile of plastic packaging.

 

But I should have said perhaps something like 'what can be done to help people to see the dilemma we are in'.

 

Have to say you addressed that anyway. I'd just add that we can do small things in our lifestyle and buying choices, recycle stuff - many small things.

 

Probably we have passed  certain tipping points. Sure I don't need to recite the litany of the various kinds of damage we've done and are still busy doing to nature. We can't foresee all the consequences. Scientists have their models, they may be accurate in a broad sense.

 

To assume nothing will come of our negative actions, or refuse to look at the evidence even, as some do, is indeed to bury your head in the sand.



#26 MeAgain

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Posted March 13 2017 - 09:47 AM

According to Ken Wilber .1% of the population of the world is at an Instinctual level. (infants, senility, etc.: they have 0% power)

10% are Animistic (gangs, tribes: 1% power)

20% Egocentric (gang leaders, feudal lords: 5% power)

40% Mythic (fundamentalism, totalitarianism: 30% power)

30% Scientific (Wall Street, industry, materialism: 50% power)

10% Sensitive (Ecology, single payer health care, idealism: 15% power)

 

1% Integrative (Systems, natural flows, natural ranking: 5% power)

.1 % Holistic (Integration of the subjective and objective, encompasses entire reality: 1% power)

 

Less than 2% of the world population is at 2nd tier thinking, although some areas are ahead of others such as Europe and to a lesser degree the U.S.

 

And yet, of course, these overall stages and levels of human development, human Growing Up, are virtually unheard of in the world at large, including most of our thought leaders.  There is not a single political system or economic market or military department or policy-determining approach or religion or spiritual practice that takes these stages into account.  Yet including them is a complete game changer across the board—and is disastrously under-utilized.

Take, as only a simple but widespread example, the common statement that what Western culture desperately needs, because it is so patriarchal, is a largescale influx of feminine values.  You’ve heard that a lot, yes?  But look at Gilligan’s feminine model itself.  What this world definitely does NOT need is more female values at stage 1 and stage 2.  We most certainly do not need more selfish and ethnocentric/racist/sexist views—clearly, we do not need those—but those are exactly what the feminine values at those early stages will give us.  What we need badly—very badly—is more feminine values from stages 3 and 4—worldcentric and integral.  Simply being female is not enough to automatically contribute something positive to society.  In fact, if you are among the 60% or so of females at those early stages, you are probably not helping this culture very much.  See how this changes the problem—and its real solution—entirely? 

 ~ The Leading Edge of The Unknown in the Human Being ~ Ken Wilber

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"Oh, how sweet it is to hear one's own convictions from another's lips"

~ Goethe

 

 


#27 Ged

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Posted March 13 2017 - 09:59 AM

How do I know I'm the same as you anyway and your conclusions.I'm my own entity here. Find very few correspondences. I imagine I've landed on an alien planet and make use of the things I find,


"What has posterity ever done for me!" - Groucho Marx.

#28 bumpy52

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Posted March 13 2017 - 11:17 AM

Hello..?  This is me, is that you?



#29 Ged

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Posted March 13 2017 - 12:02 PM

It's like there is this tendency to assume we're all on the same planet. On the bus today I was thinking how we are all different Worlds in our heads orbiting each other, but we often assume other's have the same reality as us. So I tried doing exchange of self, like a cubist montage of perception. This helps with dissolving of the ego and not to think such selfish thoughts.


"What has posterity ever done for me!" - Groucho Marx.

#30 BlackBillBlake

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Posted March 14 2017 - 04:20 AM

According to Ken Wilber .1% of the population of the world is at an Instinctual level. (infants, senility, etc.: they have 0% power)

10% are Animistic (gangs, tribes: 1% power)

20% Egocentric (gang leaders, feudal lords: 5% power)

40% Mythic (fundamentalism, totalitarianism: 30% power)

30% Scientific (Wall Street, industry, materialism: 50% power)

10% Sensitive (Ecology, single payer health care, idealism: 15% power)

 

1% Integrative (Systems, natural flows, natural ranking: 5% power)

.1 % Holistic (Integration of the subjective and objective, encompasses entire reality: 1% power)

 

Less than 2% of the world population is at 2nd tier thinking, although some areas are ahead of others such as Europe and to a lesser degree the U.S.

Again, the problem seems to be what can be done about this? If you tell people they're only half 'grown up' mostly you are certain to get a negative reaction. With only 1.4 million people at the top 2 levels likely to see any merit in this kind of analysis (maybe some of the 10% of 'sensitives' too) it's hard to see what practical steps can be taken.

Probably the herd will continue to be the dominant force, maybe until its too late.






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