Children Prosecuted As Adults. How Young Is Too Young?

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by Pete's Draggin', Mar 2, 2017.

  1. Lynnbrown

    Lynnbrown Firecracker

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    [​IMG]



    (I've run out of likes fyi lol)

    That is exactly what I was going to say...these kids that are caught torturing an animal or in possession of a dead animal (without reason)...that is a damn HUGE red flag. Hypothetically speaking: I think even though the parent may not be responsible for the kid killing the animal, they ARE responsible the second they aware of this action. They should immediately talk to/make appts with the schools or something. idk - but I know when the parent has knowledge, they are also accountable for what their child does, to a certain degree.
     
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  2. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    and if you are not aware of what your child is doing every day...there something is very wrong....

    i am on every animal who lives here every minute to make sure they are ok...not ill or acting differently, etc....Responsibility......
    You can be damn sure if I had had a kid, I would have known every minute.
    I would have made it my priority business.
     
  3. Lynnbrown

    Lynnbrown Firecracker

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    Thank you...that's exactly right.

    I cannot fathom how a mother could be aware of her child torturing and killing neighborhood animals and doing nothing...but in many of the serial killer stories it seems that is precisly what happened. smh

    I wonder if this could be an inherited thing...complete with a slightly "different" gene/biological (measurable) thing going on in their brains.

    It really makes no difference. They are what they are...and that is that

    A good mother would know if something were off, I think.
     
  4. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I cannot fathom a parent not KNOWING their child completely....and who they are.
     
  5. autophobe2e

    autophobe2e Senior Member

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    ah, but is it though?

    Trying a mentally ill person as a criminal puts them into the criminal justice system, there they will be held for a finite amount of time (as allowed by law). So when they get out, they've suffered through years in a prison environment with a pre-existing mental health condition with only the minimal counseling services offered within the prison system. They get out with a criminal record, no qualifications, no prospects and having not recieved adequate mental health care.

    Consigning them to a mental institution puts them in a secure unit where they can be held indefinitely. their release is decided by mental health professionals who can monitor them for their entire stay and then make decisions as to their threat level to society. While those mental health professionals do make mistakes, I would argue that they are more capable of making that decision based on years of data, evidence and direct observation than a judge is after a relatively brief trial.

    Under which set of circumstances do you think they are more likely to re-offend? I would suggest the former.
     
  6. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I suppose, but as you say, even mental facilities have messed up and let people out they should not have, who have gone out to kill again. I have watched several stories about such cases in documentaries....

    Some patients learned what the correct responses were and were able to fool those looking and watching them.....some are master mind manipulators, too...so there are no guarantees with this either....
     
  7. autophobe2e

    autophobe2e Senior Member

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    I'd never underestimate the ability of a parent to not want to believe that their child is capable of murder, even if the evidence is right there in front of them.

    That said, in serial killer cases it's almost always a result of childhood sexual and physical abuse and neglect combined with genetic mental health conditions (and occasional brain injury), so the parent not giving enough of a shit is usually common anyway.
     
  8. autophobe2e

    autophobe2e Senior Member

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    It is true that no system is perfect, but I do think that one is definitely better than the other.

    I believe we are drawn to the criminal justice route because it feels right to us that offenders should be punished, but I don't think that the criminal justice system is capable of dealing with offenders of this nature.

    At least mental health provisions are constantly updating and reviewing their methods in order to try and prevent such mistakes from re-occurring, not just locking them up and then letting them out when the arbitrary time limit is up.

    The mental health route also doesn't just stop with the release, there are halfway houses, probationary measures, care worker check-ups and a whole heap of precautionary steps taken before anyone is ever considered for proper full release. With prison they more or less let them out and point them at the nearest bus station.
     
  9. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Punishment is not my driving motivational force........saving a possible next victim is.
    There is a big difference in motivation here.
     
  10. Heat

    Heat Smile, it's contagious! :) Lifetime Supporter

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    I do not have an issue with some minors being charged and tried as an adult if the crime is one that fits the mandate for that.

    I do think though that we can not forget though that they are in fact still children, be it emotionally or physically. So while the penalty might be given as an adult for the crime it means that perhaps they need to be segregated and given mental health resources. The track record for our penal systems making people into better humans is rather dismal let alone children who are still mentally developing.

    There are some in society who can not and will not ever be able to be rehabilitated and become a member or society again but in the case of a minor I think that it should be addressed and evaluated again as they mature into adulthood with regards to things like parole. If they can not function then the sentence would stand.
     
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  11. morrow

    morrow Visitor

    But those theories don't work establishing sick from evil!

    One of the Bulger baby killers, went on to be a paedophiliac! He was the evil one, no doubt! He at aged ten was the one that removed the babies clothes!
    He is out in the public now, doing god knows what! The world doesn't need him!
     
  12. autophobe2e

    autophobe2e Senior Member

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    Don't want to be inflammatory, but as far as I'm concerned,the concept of "evil" has no place in a court of law, or in a hospital. Those rules are about establishing criminal responsibility, not whether or not the actions involved were morally wrong (I think we all agree child rape/murder is wrong)

    Just my two cents.
     
  13. morrow

    morrow Visitor

    Can you explain?
     
  14. autophobe2e

    autophobe2e Senior Member

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    Righto, sorry, was being a little vague there,

    You say that those rules don't work as far as determining whether someone is sick or evil, but that's not what they're for. It's for mental health professionals to decide whether or not someone is sick, and the law to prosecute someone for an action that is morally wrong (I'm not going to use the term "evil" because, as I say, I don't feel that it belongs)

    These are intended as defenses at trial, and basically, those two things should have been established before the trial even starts.

    The purpose of these rules is to establish whether or not someone's sickness is sufficient to mean that they were not in control of their actions at the time that the act was committed, and therefore whether they should be punished accordingly. If the sickness was sufficient to diminish responsibility then it should be handled by mental health specialists in secure hospital settings, if not then it should be handled by the criminal justice system.

    (in reality both agencies should, indeed must, work together to affect rehabilitation, but you take my point. I suppose it's about which agency takes primacy going forward)
     
  15. morrow

    morrow Visitor

    Yes, I understand what your saying, and to some extent agree!
    Unfortunately I don't think some people are sick ( mentally ill) some just have an evil streak from when they are born!
    Going slightly off topic, A paedofile is evil, knows whether he is doing is wrong, but acts out his evil act, regardless of what! Because he hides his evil act, hopes he won't get caught! That's not sick, it's evil! A rapist, is not sick, plans his act, as in putting disregard to the word no, he wants to be in control of the situation, for what ever reason! Etc etc..These things develope, but if we're not in the person, wouldn't happen! A sick person wouldn't have the mentality to plan, and succeed, some of the things these children do! Fortunately they are few and far between! But they are evil, if it sounds better, they are wicked!
     
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  16. autophobe2e

    autophobe2e Senior Member

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    Okay, that's a view you're perfectly entitled to, although I disagree with it.

    But I am very glad that a law court does not pass sentence based on whether or not a defendant is "evil", and that a doctor can't put that down as a diagnosis. Except that doctor from Halloween:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Blq11wjG30
     
  17. morrow

    morrow Visitor

    I don't think that's a qualified diagnosis, but it's one regarded by psychologists, and proved, when they don't go to a phyciatric prison!

    But in the UK, the children are looked after, and work towards eventual release.. but like one of the Bulger baby killers, he went to jail again!
    Some can't be reabilitated, because it's who they are! :)
     
  18. autophobe2e

    autophobe2e Senior Member

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    Aye, I'd have him struck off :D

    We'll have to agree to disagree, I think.

    While it is clear to me that some offenders are too high risk to ever be allowed back into society I don't think that it isn't worth trying with all of them, and I don't believe that they are "evil".
     
  19. MorphGirl

    MorphGirl Banned

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    Did you know this story was made into a movie? I saw this movie and I had no idea it was a true story or based on. T movie is called the slender man 2013 I think it was. I am going yo have to think on this. Have to seperate the movie from the case. Lots of similarities though.
     
  20. Wu Li Heron

    Wu Li Heron Members

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    If some are born sociopaths it is so rare it is hardly worth discussing, especially since you would still likely have to deal with them the same way as any other sociopath. Nor do I consider identifying them nearly as huge a priority as society owning up to the fact that it is responsible for many of its own problems and attempting to deal with them more constructively. The US is the wealthiest country in the world, yet we have the worst social problems in the developed world and the worst statistics of all are in the Bible Belt where they spend all their time blaming the rest of the world for all their problems and insisting everyone else is worse then they are. That's just a recipe for disaster and the situation is not getting any better.
     

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