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Donald Trump Says Torture 'absolutely Works' In First Major Interview As President




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#21 Dick Paradise

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Posted February 11 2017 - 11:53 AM

Do the words "Violation of International Law" mean anything to your hero?

Oh FFS, stop this already, I was never a "Trump supporter".  Why say such tripe?  I'm only trying to be objective, something I'm not getting from you.  I was only speaking to the naive idea that "torture doesn't work".  It works quite well, which is a horrifying fact of life that has existed for probably as long as humanity.  It was happening in the Americas before the Europeans arrived, it was happening before the Chin dynasty and I don't think any nation or race of people can claim moral high ground on this issue.  

 

For all the complaining about torture we see these days, it's just smoke in the wind.  Even if we pass "tough laws" against it, governments will still do it, they're doing it now.  The only reason it has seen the light of day was because of leaks by conscientious observers.  Unfortunately all they accomplished was to paint a target onto themselves, it's not going to stop just because people bitch about it or "protest".  It's just not.  Any of the torture occurring now by the US is likely held over from the previous administration.  

 

Oh thank heaven for plausible deniability.  



#22 stormountainman

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Posted February 11 2017 - 01:00 PM

Oh FFS, stop this already, I was never a "Trump supporter".  Why say such tripe?  I'm only trying to be objective, something I'm not getting from you.  I was only speaking to the naive idea that "torture doesn't work".  It works quite well, which is a horrifying fact of life that has existed for probably as long as humanity.  It was happening in the Americas before the Europeans arrived, it was happening before the Chin dynasty and I don't think any nation or race of people can claim moral high ground on this issue.  

 

For all the complaining about torture we see these days, it's just smoke in the wind.  Even if we pass "tough laws" against it, governments will still do it, they're doing it now.  The only reason it has seen the light of day was because of leaks by conscientious observers.  Unfortunately all they accomplished was to paint a target onto themselves, it's not going to stop just because people bitch about it or "protest".  It's just not.  Any of the torture occurring now by the US is likely held over from the previous administration.  

 

Oh thank heaven for plausible deniability.  

Naive? Did you say, "Naive?"



#23 penguinsfan13

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Posted February 11 2017 - 01:06 PM

Naive? Did you say, "Naive?"


Not sure if he said it but he did type it.

doo be doo be doo, beware of the penguins.


#24 Fear The Wickerman

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Posted February 11 2017 - 01:09 PM

Maybe he meant to say, I mean type "native"?



#25 Fear The Wickerman

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Posted February 11 2017 - 01:19 PM

Oh FFS, stop this already, I was never a "Trump supporter".  Why say such tripe?  I'm only trying to be objective, something I'm not getting from you.  I was only speaking to the naive idea that "torture doesn't work".  It works quite well, which is a horrifying fact of life that has existed for probably as long as humanity.  It was happening in the Americas before the Europeans arrived, it was happening before the Chin dynasty and I don't think any nation or race of people can claim moral high ground on this issue.  

 

For all the complaining about torture we see these days, it's just smoke in the wind.  Even if we pass "tough laws" against it, governments will still do it, they're doing it now.  The only reason it has seen the light of day was because of leaks by conscientious observers.  Unfortunately all they accomplished was to paint a target onto themselves, it's not going to stop just because people bitch about it or "protest".  It's just not.  Any of the torture occurring now by the US is likely held over from the previous administration.  

 

Oh thank heaven for plausible deniability.  

 

How can torture work?

 

For example, water boarding. You're not going to get anything out of someone by turning them upside down and pouring water over their face. At best you'll likely hear something along the lines of "gargle, gargle"

 

What you are still failing to appreciate is that while torture might work sometimes, it does not work all of the time.

 

Employing such techniques to extract information from POWs is always performed on the assumption that they know something, or might know something.

 

What if they don't know anything? How does a POW who doesn't know anything stop themselves being tortured?

 

By making something up, telling the people who are torturing them what they think they want to hear to make it stop.

 

And then we end up with innocent men in Afganistan being captured by the US military and flown to Guantanamo Bay and held for years indefinately without charge, contrary to international law and probably tortured as well.

 

No this is very much not acceptable in the modern world. Get a fucking grip.



#26 stormountainman

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Posted February 11 2017 - 02:47 PM

Not sure if he said it but he did type it.

I was so distressed and failed to describe the statement in the correct manner.



#27 stormountainman

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Posted February 11 2017 - 02:50 PM

How can torture work?

 

For example, water boarding. You're not going to get anything out of someone by turning them upside down and pouring water over their face. At best you'll likely hear something along the lines of "gargle, gargle"

 

What you are still failing to appreciate is that while torture might work sometimes, it does not work all of the time.

 

Employing such techniques to extract information from POWs is always performed on the assumption that they know something, or might know something.

 

What if they don't know anything? How does a POW who doesn't know anything stop themselves being tortured?

 

By making something up, telling the people who are torturing them what they think they want to hear to make it stop.

 

And then we end up with innocent men in Afganistan being captured by the US military and flown to Guantanamo Bay and held for years indefinately without charge, contrary to international law and probably tortured as well.

 

No this is very much not acceptable in the modern world. Get a fucking grip.

I recommend Gitmo Diary by Mohammadu Ould Slahi...available on line at the usual book vendor sites.


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#28 Dick Paradise

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Posted February 11 2017 - 03:07 PM

Naive? Did you say, "Naive?"

Why yes, that's precisely what I said/typed/telepathed.  I know it helps people sleep better at night to think it doesn't work, but that all that is accomplished by denying it.  Again, humans have been torturing people for millennia in all kinds of ways.  Sure, some of it is for pure sadism like this bullshit collection of tortures ISIS has been delivering.  But a lot of it has been used to effectively render information.

 

I'm not advocating for this to happen.  But I'm not closing my eyes to it and humming kumbaya either.  We have some very horrible people out there torturing people right now, and getting away with it.  No amount of fairy tale thinking will stop it.  We'll probably see the end of racism before we see the end of torture.  Give it a couple of thousand years. 



#29 Dick Paradise

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Posted February 11 2017 - 03:11 PM

How can torture work?

 

For example, water boarding. You're not going to get anything out of someone by turning them upside down and pouring water over their face. At best you'll likely hear something along the lines of "gargle, gargle"

 

What you are still failing to appreciate is that while torture might work sometimes, it does not work all of the time.

 

Employing such techniques to extract information from POWs is always performed on the assumption that they know something, or might know something.

 

What if they don't know anything? How does a POW who doesn't know anything stop themselves being tortured?

 

By making something up, telling the people who are torturing them what they think they want to hear to make it stop.

 

And then we end up with innocent men in Afganistan being captured by the US military and flown to Guantanamo Bay and held for years indefinately without charge, contrary to international law and probably tortured as well.

 

No this is very much not acceptable in the modern world. Get a fucking grip.

Yea, I answered all of this back in January.  Scroll back.  Of course you never once saw me post this torture was "acceptable" in any way, so why pester me with your feelings?



#30 Fear The Wickerman

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Posted February 11 2017 - 10:42 PM

Why yes, that's precisely what I said/typed/telepathed.  I know it helps people sleep better at night to think it doesn't work, but that all that is accomplished by denying it.  Again, humans have been torturing people for millennia in all kinds of ways.  Sure, some of it is for pure sadism like this bullshit collection of tortures ISIS has been delivering.  But a lot of it has been used to effectively render information.

 

I'm not advocating for this to happen.  But I'm not closing my eyes to it and humming kumbaya either.  We have some very horrible people out there torturing people right now, and getting away with it.  No amount of fairy tale thinking will stop it.  We'll probably see the end of racism before we see the end of torture.  Give it a couple of thousand years. 

 

Bribery also works, but the same problems plague that as well. People will say anything for money.

 

You say you get it, yet you still talk like some who supports torture.

 

If you get it then you don't support torture.

 

Who am I to debate this with someone who is an expert in these matters though.

 

The other problem with torture is of course the torturers. How do we know they are not terrorists as well? The kind of people who wouldn't think twice about orchestrating a terrorist attack on home soil and then blaming it on some fantasy character who lives in a cave, yet somehow manages to be the ringleader of a global terrorist organisation by recording tapes and sending them out on the internet. Still waiting on the bloodshed he promised to spill on the west, and proof that he was assassinated by black ops.

 

Maybe we should capture some western leaders and torture them, might be the first time in history any of them speaks a word of fucking truth.