Honey: Vegan Or Not?

Discussion in 'Vegetarian' started by pattymary, Sep 3, 2016.

  1. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    A person who eats no animal products, but doesn't do so for philosophical reasons, is a strict vegetarian. I've heard pure vegetarian, as well. And health vegan. Which is fine as code in a restaurant, but a PITA for people trying to understand the plant based landscape. Especially if Mr Health Vegan is wearing a silk shirt and leather shoes, and Ms. Health Vegan is carrying a leather bag and wearing a wool scarf.

    Jains wear clothing, by the way. I respect how they live their ethics.
    I relocate insects that are a direct issue. Disease spreaders, plant destroyers, actually venomous. Well, I'll wipe out a black widow or fiddleback. I am allergic to scorpions, so they threaten my life.

    I'd like to address the word extremist.
    Yes, vegan is a far end of a spectrum of belief and action. It's an extremity in the way your hand or foot is an extremity.
    An extremist is someone who goes beyond morality to get a result they want. Terroristic actions are extreme.
    Ordering a salad without cheese or egg is not. Avoiding honey is not.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. pensfan13

    pensfan13 Senior Member

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    damn you saying exactly what i wanted to...but you lacked the snarkyness i had in my head when i was thinking of a reply
     
  3. YouFreeMe

    YouFreeMe Visitor

    Right on. An excellent statement.
     
  4. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    Who is Carol?

    Meanwhile this thread has me pondering why I dont like to kill bugs but will eat meat without a second thought.
     
  5. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Likely for the same reason my mother cannot dispatch a chicken herself, but will buy it defeatherd and dismembered in a store.
     
  6. 3407LOVE

    3407LOVE Member

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    Honey is not bee vomit. It is perceived as vomit as it comes out from the bee'smouth. But it is not. The bee sucks and collects the nectar from flowers using its long proboscis and store it in its special stomach or "honey stomach" separate from its true stomach for digestion.
     
  7. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Honey is regurgitated nectar that has undergone some enzymatic action.
    To regurgitate is vomit, or since I like alliteration, it is, indeed, bee barf.

    That said, it is tasty. A comment that is true in my perception, whether I consume it or not under ethical codes.
     
  8. fundoo

    fundoo Members

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    Lol bee barf? I guess I never thought of how it was made before. Interesting. Hmm, but is it same or different than an egg or milk? Kinda makes sense it wouldn't be vegan. That being said, I am not, nor likely ever will be vegan myself. I eat eggs and honey regularly (and meat), and milk if I could. But it's definitely interesting because I have to find dairy substitites and I just like to have more options. Always wondered about this honey debate though. Ethical, I'd think. But then I feel eggs and milk and meat even are ethical too, if under correct circumstances.
     
  9. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Another aspect is crushing bees when removing the comb frames.
     
  10. dogsy64

    dogsy64 Guest

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    I consider myself vegan but I do still consume honey. As a former bee keeper, I was never interested in harming bees, only in growing the colony. Technically, I did hold them against their will. Considering the many health benefits of honey I will continue consuming it.
     
  11. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    Personally I think if you can take a resource from an animal without killing or harming it and you provide it a good life then it is fine to do so. For example wool from sheep. But a lot of honey you get will be produced on an industrial scale. So ethical treatment will be less of a priority.
     
  12. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Are bees/insects even alive?

    Bees follow a pattern more like a virus

    Amino acids arent really alive, their are just a certain subset of chemical reactions that can take place

    There are only a certain amount of limited actions a bee can do

    They have brains, just under a million neurons, too small for anything other than spacial awareness, humans have 100 billion neurons

    Are bees actually alive, or is it just a long string of chemical reactions that happen each nanosecond
     
  13. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    Well, they fly around and know their ways about, if they don't like the looks of ya they'll sting.. So.. Sounds pretty alive and alert to me.

    Like an ant hive.

    Bees Hudson, bees have hives
    You know what I mean, theres always that one mamma that's big she's big ya know.
     
  14. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Honey bee stinger is a modified ovipositor, that is it actually evolved to pierce stuff and deposit eggs with the honey bees ancestors., only females have them, so basically a modified vagina that stabs you ;)

    Honey bees predate mammals by 50 million years. The fact that its used nowadays to sting amongst other things humans, is just co-incidence

    The assumption that they sting out of danger, have any way to process danger is just an assumption

    Their brains are only about 1 cubic millimetre big - its just smell - fly - pollinate - return - repeat, there is not enough brain for anything else. More like little robots

    Now if that actually is "alive" well.........
     
  15. machinist

    machinist Banned Lifetime Supporter

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    This vegan chick who works at the local co-op - (she has great little nice perfect titties, frappacino skin tone, great face, havent got a good look at her ass) said that honey is not vegan because the bees cannot give you consent.
     
  16. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    The only animal product I've eaten with any regularity in the last month is eggs. My protein comes from whey a lot. I eat a protein shake with some almond milk mixed in with a banana and a half cup of oats. Finally got organic oats too! :)

    I thought about being vegan; after all it would be easy for me at this point. But I don't think I want to give up meat. However, it's not something I feel totally indifferent about now. Animals have rights too and I don't want them to be mistreated even if they are destined for the dinner table. I buy the expensive eggs now. The best ones are "pasture raised" and I can only really find one brand that sells "pasture raised" eggs in my area. Further, I read something today about pasture raised eggs that said they aren't regulated by the USDA which is weird. All the other types are regulated by them; for example cage free eggs which have to allocate like 2 square feet of open space available for every hen or something like that.
     
    unfocusedanakin likes this.
  17. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    So in an attempt to help out the chickens you buy more expensive eggs, so that the caged chicken are now just laying eggs that no one is buying? Lol see I don't get that. I buy caged eggs so their hard lives at least are used I guess. Until they get rid of caged farms for good, if people only buy free range, then there's chickens living hard for no reason.
     
  18. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    Do your eggs have the little "certified humane" stamp?
     
  19. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    I have absolutely no idea... Probably not if they're caged I'd say.

    See I just find everyone says, buy free range so the caged eggs go out of business. Which makes sense don't get me wrong. But then there's a shelf full of caged eggs that get thrown away right? Those farms don't get closed down, yet keep producing eggs. So in my warped sense of reality, I think that's even worse, having chickens caged laying eggs when nobody buys them. So I buy them, because in that warped sense of reality, I'm actually appreciative of that chicken and it's hard life. :)
     
  20. machinist

    machinist Banned Lifetime Supporter

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    I have 3 chickens in my yard. According to hot tits frappacino skin beauty at the grocery store I am a horrible person for eating chickens menstrual cycles because no matter how well i treat my chickens they cant give consent for me to take their eggs
     

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