Who Cares About Evidence?

I found an article relating to your comment at www.tomorrowsworld.org and I will acknowledge that it was interesting, however it's veracity must be called into question due to a few sources it cites. I'll begin with Josephus, the so called scholar who's words are cited. Josephus has long since been shown to have been a fraudulent source of information about his time period and his writings in general. Also there is the use of Jesus' biblical quotes. While there are some verifiable historical accounts in the bible Jesus is simply not among them. Next is the ridiculous assertion that the Welsh and the Scots may have been descended from these lost tribes. Currently accepted geneological studies show them to be descended from the Indo-European bloodlines which predate specific Jewish bloodlines by several thousand years. These are the same ancestors of the Germans, Norse and Indians. As such while your speculation is understandable it still doesn't, as far as I can tell, give creedence to the fulfilment of the related biblical prophecies in the current era. Even if the lost tribes do still exist there is no evidence for their having already returned to Israel.

 

Several months ago I prophesized that you would type the post above. I'll put my prophesy in writing (in a few weeks) as proof.

 

I will await this great revealing then.

 

Would you please provide the thread and post number for those references. The Old Testament has an historical setting and is full of references to events,, people, and places that were real. It also contains some alleged discrepancies and anachronisms that have been the subject of much discussion among scholars and apologists on both sides. Sifting through it all and deciding who is right is an exercise in good judgment.

 

here it is.
the formatting got messed up when the site changed over, but the info is still there;
http://www.hipforums.com/forum/topic/461341-why-does-israel-keep-making-peace-negotiations-with-terrorist-governments/?p=7589952

 

Much thanks!

 

The bible sounds to me like a schizophrenic on an authoritarian mind trip. It was probably a lot easier to claim super natural authority when there were far less people.

 

Apart from the experiment you mentioned, I'm curious about your own experience with speaking in tongues. I don't mean to pry, but could you tell us something about it. Were you a Christian before you had this experience? Were you (and are you) a member of a Pentecostal, charismatic, or Word of Faith fellowship group? What were you doing at the time this happened, and what was your state of mind beforehand? Forgive me, but were you drug free and sober? (I'm remembering Pentecost in Acts, when bystanders thought the apostles were drunk.) Is it something you expected or were hoping for, or did it simply come out of the blue? Were you alone or with a others? At what point did you interpret this as a sign or gift from the Holy Spirit? If you would share these things, or some of them, I'd be grateful, but will certainly understand if you'd rather not. I had my own spiritual awakening and subsequent ecstatic experiences, but I find charismatics fascinating.

 

and did I ever make such a claim?

 

that's a sticky one, especially among this crowd.
Considering most of the folks chiming in on the thread/topic would think me crazy or call bullshit on much of what I have experienced, I have never been to eager to disclose much about it, or other things I have experienced that have little to do with Christianity.
suffice to say that most who declare certain things false or bullshit based on their LACK of experience of it, well kinda foolish to talk definitively about things one doesn't know about, now isn't it?

I will say this much for now, the main reason I experienced it and other phenomena is because I always took the stance that if it happened as claimed, there is no reason I can not experience the same thing, and I did.
I was like "show me the power" a point often overlooked when talking Christianity. There was reported some type of power that resulted in certain things happening. People claim to experience those same hings today.
I said "SHOW ME" and I was shown. I didn't say it out of skepticism, but rather from curiosity.
I guess you could say because I wasn't putting up any internal barriers to the experience and was willing to just allow it to happen, that I acted in faith. maybe so, but end result was quite an experience.

I had been "searching" I guess, but as mentioned, I had always an affinity for "altered states" lets say.
I had become friends with a couple who's father conducted a private Bible study in his home. I became curious as they talked about some things and agreed to go. When we arrived at their house, greetings were made and we settled into the family room. About a minute after I sat down I felt a very real and palpable "presence" come over the place. It literally had physical sensation to it. it felt as if a warm blanket had been laid over me. That got my attention.
The study proceeds and concludes, then some light singing. Then it got very quite and the man who conducted the study, who's home it was, said some VERY pointed and specific things that I will not share, and then asked if anyone thought it applied to them and I said I did.
I was then asked essentially if I was willing to allow the Holy Spirit in, I answered yes.
Then the group, 7-8 people, started to quietly pray, some in tongues, some not and the main guy put his hands on my head and prayed. The only prompting or coaching I received was "if you don't open your mouth, the spirit can't speak".
so I opened my mouth to speak and out came a beautiful flowing song and it just flowed more and more. the more I allowed it to flow, the more it did.
In my minds eye I was standing at the edge of a great canyon, arms outstretched to the sky, singing my praising for all creation, but it carried a more real presence and power than just imagination alone.
that went on for about 30 minutes. It sounded very native American.

I hope that answers your questions.

some other things that I've experienced have been getting "slain in the spirit" where you pretty much go all jelly legged and limp. The experience is ineffable, but I imagine it to be like shooting meth, coke, heroin, LSD and any other euphoria inducing drug all at one shot....LOL

feeling energy surge through me and into another person
going to a small church I have never been to before and having a stranger call me to the front by name for prayer for something that literally NOBODY knew about.
won't go into details about what happened next that evening, but it was kinda life-changing for me.
and a lot of other stuff, but I've said enough already.

short answers, yes at the time i was with friends small study group, non-denominational, but with old roots in the United Pentecostal church, and no, I never drank poison or handled rattle snakes, nor did anyone I knew.
Only followed the doctrine, not the lunacy...LOL

though I did meet a gristly old hard core preacher who's arms had snake bite scars all over them, so who knows.....

 

Thank you for sharing that. I'm glad I asked. Quite moving. One of the problems with evidence is that it's sometimes private and unpredictable--very difficult to subject to scientific experiment. And as you say, difficult to convey to others, especially skeptics. Francis Collins, the eminent geneticist, reports an experience that triggered his conversion experience upon encountering a frozen waterfall divided into three streams that made him think of the Trinity. Some of my atheist friends wonder whether a few more strands would have made him a Pastafarian. When I tell people about my own experience based on an encounter with Genesis (and I wasn't even reading the Bible and don't even believe in the literal meaning of the passage), they're baffled. The important thing to me is that it was life-changing.

 

I too have had similar experiences noxious. There was a time when I believed them to be divine. However I eventually came to a different conclusion. That being united will as I have described in other threads. It is good that you have belief and I hope that it has given you what you seek in life

 

Uhhhh, thanks I guess, but must you always be so pretentious and condescending.
honestly, it's getting very old and annoying.

 

All I sought was understanding between us. I am sorrowful that you received negativity from my words. Your Way and mine are inherently one as are all beings. That being essentially offense is unknown to me but as always perception is what divides understanding.

 

So basically a book that has absolutely no evidence of being true (or at least the parts of it that matter), says that you shouldn't rely on evidence and instead blind faith? Who'd have thought!