America War Years Since 1776

Discussion in 'Politics' started by xenxan, Apr 21, 2016.

  1. hotwater

    hotwater Senior Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Yeah, I remember reading about a modern reinvestigation of the sinking and investigators determined the explosion came from within.

    For reasons I can’t comprehend many black troops were deployed to Cuba in the belief that they were somehow immune to the yellow Fever pandemic which was occurring at the time



    Hotwater
     
  2. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    The British Slavery Abolition Act 1833,
    The American Civil War, 1861 to 1865
    Emancipation Proclamation 1863.
    13th Amendment passed 1865

    The reason for the American Civil War were a lot more complex than ‘freedom’ to name just a couple - it involved competing economic models in the expansion westward and states’ rights vs federal authority.

    The fact was there was a lot of racism toward black in the north, the Emancipation Proclamation was an executive order and some have argued that there was worry that like Obama’s recent EO’s it would not have got through congress and it was sold not on ‘freedom’ but as a cunning war measure intended to cripple the Confederacy (and it only covered the rebel states).



    Again reality is a bit more complex

    The US donated the most funds (net) in foreign aid last year at $32bn. But when looking at the percentage of the country’s national income given to foreign aid, the US contribution is less impressive. It spent 0.19% of its national income, which is the same percentage as Portugal and Japan.
    Out of the DAC countries, Sweden was the most generous – it was the first to meet the 0.7% target in 1974 – donating 1.1% of its GNI to foreign aid, which works out at about $6.2bn. Next came Luxembourg, at 1.07%, then Norway at 0.99% and Denmark at 0.85%. The UK was fifth, higher than Germany at 0.41%, France at 0.36% and Switzerland at 0.49%. In total the UK spent $19bn on foreign aid last year, compared to $16bn from Germany and $10bn from France. Guardian Sep 2015

    *

    [SIZE=12pt]Of the $35 billion of total economic aid distributed, almost a quarter of funds went to five countries. Below are the top 5 recipients of economic aid in 2014.[/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=12pt]Israel: $3.1 billion[/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=12pt]Egypt: $1.5 billion[/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=12pt]Afghanistan: $1.1 billion[/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=12pt]Jordan: $1.0 billion[/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=12pt]Pakistan: $933 million[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/spends-billion-foreign/#sthash.jmCu97vT.dpuf[/SIZE]
     
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  3. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Balbus, I was thinking the same things about those 2 points. Couldn't have refuted it better.
     
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  4. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    The top of the ship's mast still stands in Arlington Cemetery. Hopefully, most history textbooks have been updated about the Maine, but I didn't hear the other side of the story about the War of 1812 until I visited Canada.

    South Carolina didn't think so, according to their succession document.

    In several speeches that John C. Calhoun made from the floor of the SC legislature before the election of 1860, he expressed the ultimately prevailing viewpoint that SC may as well leave the union right away if Lincoln won the election, based on Lincoln's known position on slavery, rather than waiting for him to act. He often spoke for hours about the intolerable disruption to the economy and social order sure to result if slavery was ended, and why he thought the federal government had no right to impose such a change on any state. Beyond that, he believed that black people were incapable of caring for themselves or getting along peacefully with others in a free society, and often said so publicly. He was the dominant SC leader during this transition period that led to war.

    Beyond wanting to end an evil institution that no longer had any significant economic value to the Northeast, Lincoln just didn't want to lose half his country, on his watch. So violence was inevitable.
     
  5. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    9 off topic and personally insulting posts removed.
     
  6. *Yogi*

    *Yogi* Resident Racist

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    War has always been good for business, more so in the US! After all, we have to clean up the world's mess like garbage men! Plus when you add all of our freedom's up, that is reason enough for the shit holes of the world to try and size us up! Don't work! Only time it did, is when WE pulled out of Vietnam because of bleeding hearts who didn't have the balls to fight and or bomb the north to stop 2/3's of their supplies! We bitched out and lost!

    The war in Iraq is funny. People say W was war hungry, but why did the current keep it going? More so, he erased that invisible line and low and behold, the WMD's were found! If W could have crossed, be a whole different senerio!

    All countries want to be like the USA, deny it all they want, if they had a golden pass they would be here asap! The country isn't going anywhere but up! The last 7yrs has shown rock bottom. A good offensive against isis would be a great boost for the economy for the US and other countries.
     
  7. xenxan

    xenxan Visitor

    Nah, just an interesting topic and certainly a little bit of a History lesson. Politic talk gets very old and frustrating after awhile lol.

    The only way to learn is to put forth topics to discuss; whether conspiratorial or not, there is some information that has been posted that at least perk a little interest to seek out more information in regards to it.


    * 'No see'ums' - noun - A parasitic entity most notably from the Ladybird family but with the distinct ability to enter and exit unknown dimensions. :D
     
  8. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]That course was chosen not forced upon the US because after WWII US interests went global and it tried to achieve hegemony. The problem was that far too often it chose the wrong things to attack for the wrong reasons. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Again the issue is a lot more complex, I mean in the post WWII history the Korean War ended in stalemate due to US public pressure, and it’s argued similarly with the withdrawal from Lebanon and Somalia. As to the covert involvement in Afghanistan it set up the situation for the rise of Islamic extremism, the US occupation and the failing situation there, and Iraqi involvement brought about ISIS and a rise rather than a diminishment of Iran’s power in the region. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]I really don’t know what you are talking about? No WMD’s were found and giving how bad the neo-con policies the Bush Admin was following were in both basics and execution their was not likely to have been a different scenario.[/SIZE]
     
  9. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Here is something I wrote in the The Decline and Fall of the America Empire: Part One 1945-2011[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]http://www.hipforums.com/forum/topic/410151-the-decline-and-fall-of-the-america-empire-part-one-1945-2011/[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]There are a number of differing views as to when the US’s decline became obvious and they are all right I mean if that is when it became obvious to them. But there have been economic ups and downs before along with expensive wars and bad Presidents in the White House and the US seem to survive and go on.

    It is just that to me there seemed to be in the past a belief or hope held by most Americans that the US would or could recover its prestige and position. Is it me, or are those attitudes becoming rarer?

    *

    I’d say that the omens of decline could be seen even in the entrails of 1945.

    - The US had risen on a wave of previously untapped resources but by the 1940's resources had either been tapped, were becoming harder to extract or had been exhausted that coupled with increased demand had hidden dangers for the future.

    - The beginnings of the rabid anti-communism and Cold War that was to cause so much damage.

    - The rejection of Keynes’ ideas at Bretton Wood in favour of a unsustainable system that was storing up problems for further down the line

    - Also war torn and damaged countries would recover (e.g. Germany and Japan with the rise of China coming later)

    - And last but not least the rise (with a lot of wealth based backing) of the neo-liberal ideas that were to become dominate later in the century with devastating results.

    *

    To me there seems to be three periods

    A slow decline from 1945 to 75 - that could have been arrested but was ignored.

    Then a steeper decline from 75 to 2005 - that would have been much harder to arrest but was in fact exacerbated by the policies that were undertaken that were claimed to be making the US stronger.

    The period when decline became increasingly obvious 2005 to the present – military overstretch, financial meltdown, acute political dysfunctionality.

    *

    Fall in top rate tax
    [/SIZE]
    1945 - 94%
    1970 – 70%
    1982 - 50%
    1990 - 28%
    2010 – 33%
    The neo-liberal ‘trickle down’ ideas that counselled low taxation of the rich took hold in the Reagan era and have remained throughout the steeper period of decline.

    Rise in top levels of pay
    In the 1950’s CEO pay was 25-50 times that of an average worker that has risen to 300-500 times by 2007.
    A bigger gap than any other developed nation.

    Trade deficit
    1960 – Trade surplus of 3.5 billion
    2008 – Trade deficit of 690 billion
    (The last time the US posted a trade surplus was in 1975)

    Decline in manufacturing
    1965 - Manufacturing accounted for 53% of the US’s economy.
    2004 – It accounted for 9%
    The Economist (10/1/2005) stated: “For the first time since the industrial revolution, fewer than 10% of American workers are now employed in manufacturing.”
     
  10. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Unfortunately, war is a normal part of the human experience.

    Why should it be any different in America?
     
  11. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    He really makes no sense at all. First of all: USA has to clean up the mess in the world? My dog is less gullible. How much money have all these wars cost and how much money have they made?
    He's only talking about freedom and the US because it sounds good. Most of his posts make clear he doesn't give a fuck about the freedom of strangers, definitely not of those in most of the countries USA has been intervening military.

    He is utterly selfish and against wellfare in his own country but here makes it sound like he applauds the US warring for (other nation's) peace. Sure its because he thinks that's good for his purse, but unless he has ties to a particular industry he will get not much from it :p
     
  12. Bud D

    Bud D Member

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    Every war was due to American business interests.
     
  13. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    LOL...[​IMG]
     
  14. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    If anything it would seem like the US would be a constant pit of internal conflict, mayhem and death. The nation is a composite of all the other warring nations on the planet. It's amazing the nation is still intact and hasn't already Balkanized. Stay tuned!
     
  15. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    The Civil War never really ended; one side just lost the ability to continue fighting. General Lee wanted Southerners to put the war behind them and move forward, but he was only a military leader, and too few of us took his good advice. So many of our current problems can be traced all the way back to that time.

    The cornerstone of conservatism is the old Southern ideal that everybody should be alike, because diversity is toxic for society.
     
  16. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Yikes, way to paint a whole swath of people. I admit I expected the same sort of thing when I moved to Atlanta, but most of that old "southernism" brought about by the "Dixiecrats" is gone now. It took a while for the US to heal because the reconstruction period turned into an occupation, something Lincoln never wanted. Sorting out the southerners who wouldn't reform was easy, they had to sign an oath of allegiance to the union in order to vote. The holdouts refused and their political power vanished.

    It was the progressive southerners who drove reconstruction forward and accepted their plight. Most of them just wanted to live their lives in peace after losing everything. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of judgemental mock "Christians" around here who think their shit don't stink (a local southernism). But REAL Christians don't bother people and they certainly don't judge. I think that's part of the problem with slamming faiths these days, a massive misunderstanding of fundamental elements.

    Also, if you don't think the south is diverse, you have not been in the same south I've been living in. We have indoor plumbing too!
     
  17. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    You're talking about Atlanta; I'm talking about areas where people hate Atlanta and Miami and New Orleans and Charlotte and Savannah and Greensboro and Asheville and Charlottesville and Memphis. These are the rural and small town areas that produce and support the right wing leaders who are currently running all the Southern states. Their disdain for the concept of tolerance has changed very little in 160 years, as far as I can tell.

    It's easy to spend a lot of time in a place like Atlanta and forget just how deeply it is hated by much of Georgia, for being too American.
     
  18. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    I found just as many tight-knit, xenophobic small towns in New York and Massachusetts. I was actually surprised at how weird they were about anyone they knew wasn't from there. Jane, my wife, is from Louisiana and the people of Schenectady and Scotia treated her like she was stupid. She had just finished her first degree and was working on her graduate program at the time. The assholes dishing this out were barely high school literate, but had been squatted in their role for well over a decade already.

    Coming from Marin county, across the bridge from San Francisco, I admit to my rose colored perspective. But there's even city/rural shit to be found in California. I have family in San Andreas. One relative drove a garbage truck and during the founder's day parade had it decorated with "Winnedago" (it was a predominantly Italian community, so it was a joke. So was the dumpster being labeled as an "Italian Hot Tub" hanging from the front with a bunch of kids waving. I remember how they would visit us in Marin and by the time they left they were calling my parents dreamers and moonbeams and cult victims. They didn't care for all the Mexicans around Marin either. In the 70s that was like 8% of the population there. But I never considered them as anything more than isolated mountain people who had similar DNA. Hardly klan material.

    I think as a country we have gotten lazy with our perceptions of regions. Most of the people I encounter who grouse about "the south" seem to get their information from Deliverance or Mississippi Burning. Or just from the general perception that follows from decades of ragging on "the south". But what do I know? I'm from the land of fruits, nuts and flakes. I have a granola soul.
     
  19. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Some towns in upstate NY are like that...have you ever been to Cooperstown....? BEAUTIFUL town! you cannot beat the landscape there....but thepeople, forget it,....gossip, gossip, gossip about everyone.....and viscious...No wonder my mom spent the last years of her life barracaded inside her own apt. alone......I have not gone back there since. I should make a visit back, though, for closure and things......It is the anniversary of her death today 3 years ago......
    i seemed to not pay attention to the shit when I lived there....I was in my own world , as usual...but once I started really looking and things brought to my attention by my mom...I saw it, too....

    I live in a place now in NY where I do not experience any of that, but I mind my own business for the most part, and my closest neighbor is still far enough, where I could squat and pee on my own property and they couldn't see that.....so maybe I am just blind again to this area in some respects, but I would prefer it that way, anyway.

    Also, there are many colleges in the area where I live now, so the energy in the air is pretty progressive.
     
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