Request For People To Explain Their Morals.

I have to agree with you here, Neon, and was going to say something yesterday....
Taking drugs, drinking too much alcohol, etc.......who are you hurting....but only yourself, unless you are driving and drinking or something like that....but obviously, it is not the same thing as beating someone or something else up at all.......you are hurting someone or something (animals) else then.....

Hurting yourself is not good either, but it is a whole different thing...and forgiveable.
the other stuff ,,,, not so much.

 

I got to thinking about this post and realized it is probably the most honest post on here.

I stand by what I said earlier that this would be a Japanese conclusion. However that is because the Japanese group ethic is traditionally strong enough that they make no qualms about it. Like many traditional planter cultures, they glorify the group. To be a part of the in-group, and knowing where you fit in, is all that matters.

The problem is that all civilizations have been passed down from Planter cultures and are built upon the very institutions that were developed to protect, strengthen, and maintain the in-group that made up the local community.

America has this great mythohistory of the rugged individual---the pioneer----just him/her against the world. But there has always been a group ethic at play in American history.

Today we have exported this ideal of Modern man as the individual around the world. As I have said many times in this forum, Modern global culture today is largely American pop culture (even if it is interpreted in its own way by each culture----in Japan for example, the interpretation of American pop culture has largely been based on the 1950's ideal. You find similar strands in France, for example). American values are spread through our music, commercialism, movies, and all the rest of what Guy Debord called the Spectacle. The American spectacle is worldwide. Even in the deepest Indonesian or New Guinean jungle you will find discarded coca cola cans and bottles. And the dirty t-shirts worn by the indigenous tribes in the nearest village, will more likely than not bear American corporate logos and pop culture legends

But this Modern American Industrial Age Individualism is simply a mask covering what is in reality an elitist group ethic. And why would we expect it to be any other way? The only true unifying force in the Modern Age is that of consumerism. The only true individuals America has really seen are the hippies (which is why I say we were the only true Nietzchean ubermensch---that striving to assert the individual, and that Dionysian wildness----that’s what Nietzsche was really talking about!), but even then it was only the first few years this was actually expressed----where people would dress in whatever manner they chose and express themselves in whatever weird way they wanted and that it was appreciated because they were expressing their individuality. By the time I came into the scene, being a younger baby boomer, commercialization already determined what it meant to be cool, to be hip, or mod.

So there you have it, Aoabai tells it like it is. Except that many of us will find that we embrace the morals and values of the in-group we associate ourselves with----and are less often to treat them indifferently as Aoabai does----at least she retains that much of her own individuality. We all bury ourselves into our own elitist in-group, and our morality echoes the group. And that really is the point of this thread, isn’t it?

Aoabai is ahead of the game for most people---she recognizes it. She understands it as just her way of surviving. Most of us are too busy thinking we are individuals---and a bit elitist at that---without realizing that we are simply fitting in ourselves, and when we think we are acting out our individualist will, we are really just acting out the personas and motifs that fit the elitist in-group we want to associate with. We differentiate ourselves from others by an elitist group ethic.

I am speaking in general terms of course. I have always tried to be an authentic individual, and I am sure there are many here who try as well. My lifelong career was in the stock market. Talk about an elitist group----I often stroked my ego with my career too. But my hair was almost always long (Yes I did give in many times---generally to my wife----and cut my hair, but even then it was never as short as anyone else’s. My shortest was the length everyone else would have already gone to the barber for). I dressed nicely, but never like anyone else. I always stood up for the rights of clients and employees. I never fully played the corporate game---but made myself valuable enough they could not lose me. I never gave in to my personal morals----I was lucky in that I always positioned myself in places where I did not have to question my own values, or compromise them.

But as authentic as I tried to be, living in the Industrial Age meant that I could never truly escape this elitist group ethic. We all have to eat and survive after all. (Though I must say that I would not be able to work for a company in today’s world---post credit crisis----the Apollonian ethic (to quote Nietzsche again) is way too strong, and most workers are reduced to slavery in my opinion. I feel sorry for you guys.)

 

I don't think my views on morality comes from my race and ethnicity, especially considering I'm mixed with Gosh knows what. My filty father's family, lol. But, if we go that route there are two ethnicities within my blood that glorifies the survival of the group, even at the cost of the individual. You break, crack, bend to fit in in order for all of us, including yourself becuase you're not dying if you change... to survive. It's just how it is, at least that's how I see it. When I was younger I argued that everyone was like this, but people don't like being told they're followers, sheeps, like everyone else, and whatever else they concluded from what I'm telling them. So, I stopped, and only only applied it to myself. But, don't get me wrong, like I said above it's not as self-righteous as it sounds. I'm not like throwing myself in a circle of fire just to keep my family unit alive. Lol. It's more keeping my mouth shit if a doctor manhandles my mother, becuase it only hurts her. Something simple, and plain like that. Just don't rock the boat, becuase it only injures the people you love, the innocent, or youself, which in turn hurts the people that care about you and don't want to see you get arrested for rocking the boat too hard. Lol. I don't know. Also, I figured if I really do need to fight I should save it for something actually life threatening, not just disrespecting, or rude. Though, I don't know... I might still press the button, even at moments like that. I need to be in it, to remember who I was and who I am now. Then I will decide. But, I doubt I'll ever be in such a situation. So, mostly it's just social morality, in which I can copy the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of others, as my own.

 

Aw, thank you for making me sound so presumptive, Wolfie.
That is going to make me fit in here so much, lol!
I love you, man,

 

That's the limitation of art. Like watching a movie where everything is wonderful, but when you switch off the set, nothing has really changed.

I still think that if a person takes coke or heroin they are being careless as to whether others should be harmed just to prop up their habit.

But of course I agree that beating up women (or men) is totally unacceptable.

So many idols have feet of clay.

 

For a variety of reasons, I decided to stop using people and go back to following The Golden Rule.

 

^
I noticed that remark about you using people and was planning on replying on that, how it would explain a lot about how you seem to view other people (and used to prefer not bothering with them because they might use you, or just not be sincere)

The innkeeper trust his guests like he is himself

 

Dylan said !!
Woody Guthrie was my last idol he was the last idol because he was the first idol I’d ever met face t’ face that men are men shattering’ even himself as an idol an’ that men have reasons for what they do an’ what they say an’ every action can be questioned

He Was right !

 

I believe that different Christians have different views of faith.

To understand them, you should ask questions about specific issues, and what they think the bible says about it, and what it means.

I asked my Christian mother a bunch of questions about different biblical topics last night. It was interesting to hear her point of view.

 

Evidently true. I was raised by christians who didn't even taught me to fear God

 

From my perspective it is about calming the storm.

 

consideration is morality. the quality of life is directly proportional to how many people practice it and to what degree.

 

I used to have morals, but gave them all up when I realized everyone else changed theirs when it was to their advantage.

Fear of the law is the only thing keeping me in line now, and if I think they're not looking........

 

I try to live by treat others as I'd like to be treated. Treat others with kindness and respect, even if they don't deserve it. Being kind to those who are only kind to me, is easy. Sometimes, the only light someone may see is the light you bring into their lives, even just for a moment. Your life might help another life. Another life might help your life.

Beyond that, morality can be pretty subjective.

 

I believe that a sense of morality is naturally endowed to us, in that a functioning creature does what appears best to it. An uninstructed or irrational mind may believe that murder or thievery is within their moral bounds because those acts may appear with some warped, emotional justifications. Therefore, if only we think rationally, by the logos, morality will come to us through comprehended instruction or independant deliberation. Think well, do well, and you shall live well.

 

Respect for all life that bout sums it up for me. I believe wholeheartedly in the concept of individuality but we've taken it & removed mutual & universal respect from the table. Now it's a true singular individualism taken to the second most depraved extreme. Care only for you & those closest to your heart, all else be damned. There are many who've gone one step further & removed their heart from the table as well.