Crushing The Fine-Tuned Argument

That the Earth is fine-tuned for life, which as Asmo pointed out is rare among the rest of the observable universe. We know there are billions and billions of stars, however we don't know any others which has a planet around it containing life. Cosmologists and astrophysicts are also looking for specific conditions in planets in other solar systems, which they think are most likely to contain life. Furthermore, the fact that we as a species are able to 'step outside' of our biological constraints so to speak, and reflect on our particular place in the cosmos, perhaps suggests to some creationists that life appears to be too ordered to be brought on randomly.

Now this apparent order of things may be in many ways constructs of the human mind, which certainly is not limited to creationists. In the leaf video, the narrator gives a sarcastic sense of incredulity because of the frequency of leaves we come across, making them become dull to our senses. However things you might be generally in awe of due to novelty such as your computer or iphone, your cat or dog may have the same sort of reaction to those electronics, as us to leaves. Even with the example of leaves, I can recall be genuinely in awe of leaves on LSD. The fact that the leaf resonates with a specific color, texture, patterning and form which commanded attention of my sight, touch and sensations at that particular place in time, I found truly fascinating. Further reflecting on it now, the chance that a particular leaf may inform the individual that it is medicine, food, poision, or perhaps a tool is something that may perhaps provoke an invidual to incredulity of such a common object in the enviornment, which is not so systematically ordered as the ways ours is.


Seems like a difficult balance of tempering incredulity and becoming numb to the dynamics of nature when discussing these topic, as the scale which these arguments rest on are so vastly beyond the general human condition.

 

I've got something to say, I heard some science today.
Doesn't matter much to me unless it proves that God's real.


The brass tacks of things here are that the superstitious are hunting for signs of God in rare events or "miracles".
While the rational know that miracles are just illusions of probability.
If not complete frauds.



I've got a vile of blood,
I swear to God it's just blood...

 

I don't understand something, therefore it's magic. There, I just summarized most theistic arguments.

 

most theistic presenters do not to approve of magic because they do not understand it
and neither do you . do you need help ?

 

is a theistic god not just a long winded way of saying "magic"? and the contradictions in epistemology in abrahamic religions are staggering; on the one hand, god is infinite, eternal, impossible to comprehend, and it is forbidden to assign him human qualities; on the other, he is Just, All Powerful, and really doesn't like the turban heads living in Sodom. The torah, bible, and quran want to have it both ways. "God is beyond your comprehension mortal, do not attempt to box him in with any qualities. But pray to him, for he is just, merciful, and kind, unless you're gay or don't believe in him, then he's going to revoke your VIP pass."

 

Mr. Writer's (and to be fair Relaxxx's posts as well to some extent) remind me of myself when I was in puberty. Why am I saying this here? I guess I just am really glad to be out of that mindset and like to share that.

 

Aww, he's so mature and deep.

Superstitions are so mature and deep.

 

I'm just saying I can relate where you are coming from but I'm glad I'm not in that phase anymore. Not trying to make myself sound (more) deep or profound or anything (although it is typical you perceive it only that way, like it is a competition in wits) If you look objective at your own posts you surely can see that you make yourself come across as an angry adolescent.
You do not seem to look for reason, just proclaim repeatedly and provokingly that you have found it. Mr. Writer on the other hand always seemed to look for reason but seems to have lost it now that he has convicted theism as a whole. I am not a convinced theist either. It is ok to admit you do not know it all. If you consider that deep or the ultimate sign of maturity I guess you're right about me in above post Although i've seen people from all ages that have found out being a polarizing stereotyping and oversimplifying idiot that is eager to convict and ridicule is not really constructive (OR logical/reasonable). You are basicly doing the same as an annoying evangelist. That you're on the exact other side of the coin does not change that.

 

I'm sorry that you lost your testicles. Science may be able to provide you with prosthetic ones.

Oh I'm sorry, was there a redeeming quality of theism that I missed? Was there a single glint of truth within its ontological claims and epistemological quagmire that I have overlooked? please enlighten me as to why rejecting theism in its entirety, no matter what flavour it comes in, is mistaken. because I can't prove that there ISNT a god of israel who cares what kinds of clothes I wear? Because i can't prove there ISNT a god who is violently enraged at minor tribal squabbles in 15th century arabia? because i can't prove that black people were made from mud? That gays should be stoned to death? that god is loving and just, because this book written by a man who's name and life story nobody knows says so, but three pages later he commands people to commit genocide on the very creatures he created?

please, enlighten me, what wisdom have you gained since leaving the puberty of critical thinking? It better not be based on what i can't prove, because i also can't prove that Thor and Asgard aren't real, especially in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary like the complete absence of a race of frost giants, who Thor (peace be upon him) is said to have wiped out.

 

Asmo,
I don't care if you call me an ass or immature, but if you're saying that I'm unreasonable then you had better point out where exactly my reasoning is flawed.
Are you saying there is nothing ridiculous about religion? You think people don't hunt for signs of God in "miracles"?
What great reasoning have you brought forth aside from calling me disturbed?

 

I think these militant positions speak to some personal disappointment in life. Once you have determined that the devil/god is responsible it is hard to see the world absent your seemingly just verdict. In understanding the phenomena of god it seems prudent to remember that the verdict on essential causes over all remains open to investigation. Absolutely yeah or nay by definition are fundamental/ist positions.

 

The devil/god has spoken.

 

I understand the point is hard to reasonably argue with.

 

When it doesn't make any sense.

 

What doesn't make sense specifically?

 

I'm sorry you seem to imply that I (or all religious followers or religions on itself) oppose science. I'm not sure if you think you are as objective as possible but if you do look again. To put science and religion against eachother seems a medieval approach to me. I'm also sorry you seem to think ridicule is the best approach to defend your point of view.

I have explained many times it is your approach that make you unreasonable. Clearly you noticed that already (I may hope) as I am far from the only one that is trying to point that out to you. No, some religions do have ridicilous aspects but you seem to conclude that because of that every religious follower is an idiot and religions as a whole is ridicilous. That is a very subjective viewpoint (that you certainly are entitled to, and I am entitled to react to that every goddamn time ) and unreasonable conclusion. I'm sure you can see that too.

In your hate for religion you have become just as annoying and dogmatic as any other fundamentalistic extremist. Like I said: that you're on the other side of the coin does not change that. Everything you project on all theists I see in certain atheists as well, and I can often use you as an example for that.

 

Where did I say every religious person was an idiot?
I was counter arguing the fine tuned universe argument and miracle hunting specifically.

 

post 31 second sentence,
who has determined that devil/god is responsible for anything? WTF?

 

I was not limiting what I said there to this thread only. You are basicly making the same hatethreads against religion over and over again even if the message of the movie in the OP differs. You're kind of an evangelist. And dogmatic.

 

Don't you think religion responsible for a certain level of ignorance?