Why are feminists so despised by so many people?

Discussion in 'Feel Good Feminism' started by fraggle_rock, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    I've heard that one before. Also that all heterosexuality is rape.
     
  2. RandomVegan

    RandomVegan Member

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    To start off with I identify as a RadFem, no this does not equate to TERF, it just means I am an activist in gaining equality for my gender (and this seems to anger a majority of people)


    Just because you choose to assert something does not make it true. Femenism as defined by those of us whoactually ARE running it and have lived it is - "attempting to modify societies attitudes in such a way that womyn may have fully equal rights as men" - in no way does this cause/encourage discrimination to men, nor is it hateful to men.

    SOME people are rapists and murders, by extension of your argument - this makes you one also, see how your argument of - if ANYONE uses your title and is a kook, ALL of you are" is disingenuous?


    this may be caused by one of two things. Either your attitude sets everyone off, or you have limited experience with feminists.

    1 ) just because everyone you have met is "A" does not mean every human is "A" standard set theory. If every person you met in your life was a citizen of your nation is it true that every human is?

    B ) other option, as I have said and heard from others "if all of your experiences are negative, it may not be that everyone in your life you have met is a jerk, possibly you are the jerk" - This can be applied to any situation or group.


    no, feminism is striving for equality, if some people don't like us striving for equality it is their problem, if some people use the term to mean anything else it does not invalidate our goals or movement. Forcing us to redefine who we are every time you find one person you don't like is just another way of batting us aside.


    again no - we define ou movement, not you or any minority - are you going to ask every religion to change who they define themselves as due to a few extremists in their movement. Telling us we can't be who we are is just another way of asserting your privilege and being a part of the patriarchy. It is just a way of making sure we are not allowed to fight for our equality.


    and you DECLARING from on high what my motives are does not actually define them. As I have repeatedly stated, we just want to be differentiated from doormats.
     
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  3. Anaximenes

    Anaximenes Senior Member

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    But what is sexism? Sexism properly used for without controversy is understanding is all about applying rights according to the privilege of being one sex instead of another. Life really is that way;:sifone: isn't it?

    Sometimes it is only just that one person has more rights than another. And if the reason why is explained for the impersonal value judgement than just the better.
     
  4. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    I agree. This standard also applies to your assertions.

    I offered a logical reason why feminism is implicitly and inherently supremacist, namely that the term "feminine" is embedded in its title.

    You have offered absolutely no logical counter argument

    So you declare that asserting a thing does not make it so, then you immediately claim to characterize feminism by asserting that it is so.

    You are saying a thing is so, but provide no evidence of it.

    I think you mean to say here that my argument is flawed, rather than disingenuous. To say that my argument is disingenuous denotes that my argument is insincere.

    To make the claim "all men are X" or "all women are X", one would have to argue that X is inherent to men or women; that is, that there are no exceptions.

    Generally, it is difficult to make universal characterizations of heterogeneous groups. To say "all men are rapists" can be countered by empirical evidence that not all men are rapists. Unless a characteristic is shared by all members of a group, it can not be asserted as universal.

    In characterizing a person who calls themselves a feminist, or a member of the KKK, however, in every case, that person has chosen to participate in that group. One is not simply born a member of the KKK or a feminist.

    If you would like to argue that not all feminists are participating in a hate group, would you also like to argue not all members of the KKK are participating in a hate group?


    I have had altogether too much experience with feminists. You are neglecting the option that feminism really is a hate group.


    see your own post above:
    Couldn't the KKK use an identical argument to deny that it is a hate group? Would you support the idea that someone can be a member of the KKK and not be part of a hate group?

    In other words, I can't make universal characterizations about feminists, but you can characterize me as the beneficiary of privilege and as the participant in patriarchy because I criticize feminism?

    While I have never encountered anyone who calls themselves a feminist who does not harbor deep hostility toward men, that does not itself establish a universal characterization.

    However, if no person who has offered to sell me the Brooklyn Bridge has in fact been the lawful owner, it gives me cause to be suspicious about someone's claims of ownership.


    see your own post above:
     
  5. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    It's called conservatism.
     
  6. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    Nothing but angry, radical lesbian ranting. After reading that, I feel oppressed - by feminists! Every woman who has a different view from theirs is brainwashed? That kind of rhetoric is always a red flag. It's an attempt to silence anyone who has a different view.

    The site's most recent blog entry is no better, claiming that life on earth won't survive unless most men die. :rolleyes:

    I feel like the word "feminist" has been hijacked, to the point where I'm no longer willing to use it. I don't care to identify with any group that hates half the world's population. I like the term's original definition, the one that's in the dictionary. Either I'm a feminist or I hate feminists, depending on which functional definition of the word that you prefer to use.
     
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  7. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    I'm willing to claim it, even as I also embrace womanist, which includes POC and Bi/lesbian woman.

    Feminists (or conservatives, or liberals, or LBGTQETC) are despised because a culture hung up on, as compared to merely using, labels has to denigrate an other.
     
  8. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Also, THIS:


    Please note: I DID NOT write this. I don't know who did; I found it on both FB and tumblr. If anyone knows who the original author is, please give credit where credit is due. Thank you.

    A List of “Men’s Rights” Issues That Feminism Is Already Working On

    Feminists do not want you to lose custody of your children. The assumption that women are naturally better caregivers is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not like commercials in which bumbling dads mess up the laundry and competent wives have to bustle in and fix it. The assumption that women are naturally better housekeepers is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want you to have to make alimony payments. Alimony is set up to combat the fact that women have been historically expected to prioritize domestic duties over professional goals, thus minimizing their earning potential if their “traditional” marriages end. The assumption that wives should make babies instead of money is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want anyone to get raped in prison. Permissiveness and jokes about prison rape are part of rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want anyone to be falsely accused of rape. False rape accusations discredit rape victims, which reinforces rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want you to be lonely and we do not hate “nice guys.” The idea that certain people are inherently more valuable than other people because of superficial physical attributes is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want you to have to pay for dinner. We want the opportunity to achieve financial success on par with men in any field we choose (and are qualified for), and the fact that we currently don’t is part of patriarchy. The idea that men should coddle and provide for women, and/or purchase their affections in romantic contexts, is condescending and damaging and part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want you to be maimed or killed in industrial accidents, or toil in coal mines while we do cushy secretarial work and various yarn-themed activities. The fact that women have long been shut out of dangerous industrial jobs (by men, by the way) is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want you to commit suicide. Any pressures and expectations that lower the quality of life of either gender are part of patriarchy. The fact that depression is characterized as an effeminate weakness, making men less likely to seek treatment, is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want you to be viewed with suspicion when you take your child to the park (men frequently insist that this is a serious issue, so I will take them at their word). The assumption that men are insatiable sexual animals, combined with the idea that it’s unnatural for men to care for children, is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want you to be drafted and then die in a war while we stay home and iron stuff. The idea that women are too weak to fight or too delicate to function in a military setting is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists do not want women to escape prosecution on legitimate domestic violence charges, nor do we want men to be ridiculed for being raped or abused. The idea that women are naturally gentle and compliant and that victimhood is inherently feminine is part of patriarchy.

    Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.

    If you really care about those issues as passionately as you say you do, you should be thanking feminists, because feminism is a social movement actively dedicated to dismantling every single one of them. The fact that you blame feminists—your allies—for problems against which they have been struggling for decades suggests that supporting men isn’t nearly as important to you as resenting women. We care about your problems a lot. Could you try caring about ours?
     
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  9. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Feminism can be classified as 1st wave and 2nd wave.

    1st wave feminism occurred in the early 20th century; it was noble and pushed for equality. And thankfully succeeded.
    2nd wave feminism came from the mid 20th century and propagates women into an artificial victim mentality and believing that the man is keeping them down. When in fact they are capable of succeeding of they had the passion for it. Yet at the same time, vilify males as sexual pests for flirting with women and trying to find a partner. It's no wonder there's so many "wimpy" men out there who are too timid to pursue a woman, and there's so many women who complain that real men don't exist anymore.

    Oh yeah, and 2nd wave feminism also teaches us that lipstick is a phallic symbol of patriarchal oppression.
     
  10. pensfan13

    pensfan13 Senior Member

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    And the third wave make some average microbrews
     
  11. Driftwood Gypsy

    Driftwood Gypsy Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    i see men who get really defensive when you start talking about feminism, patiarchy, etc. and are quick to attempt to separate themselves from that; "well I'm not like that!" and then precede to blather sexist crap.
    i consider myself a radfem and my favorite book is The First Sex by Elizabeth Gould Davis.
    the fact is, women have been oppressed for many, many years, and many men are subconsciously scared of that changing.
     
  12. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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  13. princessokay

    princessokay Member

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    They have a little bit of Aspergers.
     
  14. Driftwood Gypsy

    Driftwood Gypsy Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  15. Piaf

    Piaf Senior Member

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    Because they're fucking annoying.
     
  16. Driftwood Gypsy

    Driftwood Gypsy Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    who? feminists or anti feminists?
    anti feminists are annoying because its like they're discrediting the rest of us women and working against what we've been working so hard to achieve. they're just encouraging the fedora wearing misogynists.
     
  17. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    I take issue with your problem with fedoras.
     
  18. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    I believe first wave feminism was noble when it took place over 100 years ago. But what is modern western feminism trying to accomplish now aside from restructuring gender roles and divide women and men against each other?

    Also, when did fedoras become misogynistic?
     
  19. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    "Despised by so many people." I'm not sure I accept the basic premise. "So many" would be a relative term. There are people in just about any group that take the ( wasted, IMO) time to worry about what OTHERS are doing or feeling. Conversely, EVERY group has dick heads that make reputations for their group that unfairly reflect on reasonable members. How does it hurt me if women want the same pay as men for the same jobs? About as much as gays getting married. That is ==zero. Any man that still maintains that women haven't gotten and still DON'T get the short end of the stick, isn't observant. Hell, they weren't even allowed to vote until 1920 or so.
     
  20. Driftwood Gypsy

    Driftwood Gypsy Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    every misogynist guy on tumblr and youtube seems to wear a fedora.
     

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