Do you think people are born gay?

Because it rejects the life experiences of others.

 

In fact I did mean it. Sex and Gender
Check out that link for a detailed synopsis of my previously stated opinion.

Also to clarify I do not believe that our actual gender or predisposition is defined by the world around us. I do however believe that our older more adult predisposition is. There are still many unknown factors contributing to our gender and our orientation (genes as an example). However those genes and such can only take us so far in the effort to become what we do. We still must make subconscious or conscious decisions that are more often than not drawn from the world at large.

 

I think you're right, this is why it feels offensive. But yeah any opposite opinion might do that. If it wasn't ment to be offensive but a serious (but maybe controversial) thought on this subject he should be able to share it without being disliked. After all it is not brought in an offensive way it seems, and not even all gays or science seem to be 100% sure of the contrary yet.

 

Apparently you and others did not understand the meaning behind my statement. So I'll break it down a bit for you all.

Contrary to your stated opinion this thought does not reject life experience. In fact it is based within life experience. Subconscious experience is still experience after all. While a person may make a decision to become "gay" that does not imply that their choice was not influenced by the outside world. It simply means that they chose (be that choice rational or irrational) and that through the choosing they changed. Boys are not born inherently being attracted to girls and girls are not born inherently attracted to boys. Nor are we born with attraction to the same sex. There is no empirical evidence to support us being so. There is however evidence in everyday life to support the opposite assumption.

 

When a gay guy tells me that he has never been the slightest bit attracted to girls in a sexual way, not even for one moment in his life, I take him at his word. If he was fascinated by girly clothing and behavior from a very young age, that tells me something has been going on with him that is clearly innate. What choice does he have? He can suppress his natural personality and be miserable, or indulge it and be happy.

An opposite example would be a bisexual who chooses monogamy at some point in his or her life. In true monogamy, they can no longer function as a bisexual. A real choice has been made, and it can be changed later.

We know that some personality predispositions are inherited at least to some degree, because identical twins separated at birth grow up with similar personalities.

I think some people are very sensitive about this issue because of so many extremely religious people taking the position that all people can and should choose to be straight.

 

I also take those peoples word for it. But there are also other gay people who seem to experience it differently. And although I am inclined to think it is something you are born with as well I still think it is unneccessary to get offended if someone sincerely happens to doubt that. I understand it is a sensitive issue but when it is not an religious extremist that expresses that doubt or contrary viewpoint there is really no need or point to get offended by it

 

this is a subject that can not be answered, so i wont offer an opinion, sinse opinions get so much scrutiny on these forums

 

The question is what you think and you can't answer it?

 

wut i think means its an opinion, and being that there is little to no science behind it an opinion in this is just insignificant imo. i could answer it but i choose not too, cuz of wut i said in my last statement. if people were more chill, then yeh i would

 

So you will not post any controversial opinions on this site?

 

I don't actually, to both statements. I've actually heard gay guys talk A LOT more in life. Thank goodness for that!

 

Wake up dude, that's my whole point! That's the smoking gun evidence that the process doesn't work the same way for everybody! I think we mostly agree on this, you just don't know it yet.

The OP's original question implies that there is a single answer for everybody, and I reject that premise.

All this is easier to understand from a Zen point of view, which doesn't rely on Western labels and rigid logic.

 

I was aware that we agree I just think it is slightly ridicilous to feel offended by Indie's reply when it was asked what we think and he gave his honest thoughts on the matter. If it was apparent he had a dubious motive for expressing his opinion it would be something different but to immediatly assume so seems a pity in a thread where we were asked for it.
It's the same when you get dissed for bashing a city in a thread where people ask you which city you dislike

 

We actually agree about a lot of things, since you are from one of the most liberal countries on earth and I'm one of the most liberal people you could ever meet in the American South.

Offended? Not me. I just think it's time to move on past the narrow thinking. I've read plenty of posts in the past like, "I don't think anybody has a choice about their sexual preference, because I didn't" and "I think everybody has a choice about their sexual preference, because I did." It seems to me, a consensus has emerged that there can't ever be a consensus.

:cheers2: That's life on the internet!

 

With the offended I still ment the people who thumbed his post down of course! But I think I made myself clear on a matter that is essentially pretty obvious
By the way, that I happen to be from one of the most liberal countries is not a guarantee for anything!

 

That's true. Anybody can be wrong.

 

Not to be rude but how exactly is my opinion a concept of narrow thinking?

 

That, is the real question. Why is it so offensive to those on both sides of the argument. Something is not set in stone from birth is offensive to some, Something is set in stone from birth offensive to others.

I agree with Indy on the first part, no one is born anything. The concept of genes determine everything is a throw back from 50 years ago when we were first trying to understand it all, filtered through literature and pop culture, and probably most influentially; diluted, dumbed down for high school science classes to make it easier for everyone to understand the basics

Genes determine everything has never been true, its just mistruths of context and perception.


I could go onto a tangent about what genes are what they do, what they dont do the same everytime, which is why they dont determine everything....but its all irrelevant.

The argument isnt about genes or chromosomes, whether most people are going to spend much time reading up on that or care, or anything to do with being born or what that really even means.

Too polite for the most part to ever say what its really about, but along the lines of "It does get better" actually ends up meaning; geezus fooking christ thank God! I did end up this way

 

But indy didn't say anything about anyone making a choice. Or at least I didn't see anything like that.

Although you may have perceived so because his opinion doesn't match yours, and the usual counter argument is that of the religious right.

There are more than two answers to questions like these. Usually each one having some form of validity. You're not the only person who is right.

 

Same rule for everybody, regardless of DNA.

The old debate of nature versus nurture implies that there is a simple, single answer to the question. It's a mix of both, and the mix varies in a complicated way. Real life is never simple.

If we just respected the rights of everyone, the question would be mostly irrelevant.

I already said there is no answer to the original question. I think you missed something.