Holocaust Revisionism

Discussion in 'Conspiracy' started by Hoppípolla, Nov 23, 2013.

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  1. odonII

    odonII O

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    Are you sure this sentence is correct?

    *Awaits response*

    I don't believe that.

    I don't believe that.

    I believe that.

    I don't believe that.

    I believe that.
     
  2. Indy Hippy

    Indy Hippy Zen & Bearded

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    As I have said to many others before you, your opinion is your own. If you must cope with something like the Holocaust by working to deny it that is your choice. All viewpoints are in error because all viewpoints are perfect. What we choose to see from those viewpoints is ours alone.
     
  3. Hoppípolla

    Hoppípolla Senior Member

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    Come on - obviously it's wrong to imprison someone for expressing a viewpoint. Doesn't anyone think it's a tad suspicious that we can slag off the president and Congress as much as we like but the second we say "There weren't any human gas chambers at Auschwitz." we could be imprisoned? Does anyone really think that's just?

    Freedom of speech is one of the most wonderful things we have. Don't let's sacrifice it so easily.

    Anyway erm, I can't wait to dig into this stuff. I'll get reading some articles and stuff when I'm back on my PC later :)
     
  4. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    It's a bit exaggerated what you believe. For instance many people think the swastika and German artifacts are all banned etc but you can hit up the street markets and buy pretty much anything. Homes and properties display the swastika on the way through villages on the way to Aushwitz itself. You can pro nazi rally in Germany without imprisonment but under strict supervision. We can have our freedom of speech without fear of imprisonment, I mean you really got to piss someone off to get in trouble.
    Misunderstandings just like when people think there's no speed limit on the entire autobahn etc.
     
  5. odonII

    odonII O

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    From what I can see, nobody has been...
    I said have you any e.g's (to you and storch)...
    And his e.g(s) turned out to be more complicated than 'expressing an opinion' such as: "There weren't any human gas chambers at Auschwitz."
    It's generally 'inciting racial/hatred' or Code, section 181: Section 181 states that "[e]very one who willfully publishes a statement, tale or news that he knows is false and causes or is likely to cause injury or mischief to a public interest is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment . . .".
    (which no longer exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Zundel
    (looks like you agree with them)

    'Anyway erm, I can't wait to dig into this stuff. I'll get reading some articles and stuff when I'm back on my PC later '

    You better hurry up...and make it good.
     
  6. Hoppípolla

    Hoppípolla Senior Member

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    odonII - Well that's great then! Time to get stuck in!

    Also, I'm obviously not doing it for you am I I'm doing it for myself and the other revisionists. If you are not into Holocaust revisionism then erm... aren't you in the wrong thread? lol :)
     
  7. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Is a person in the wrong thread when you proclaim people are locked up for holocaust revisionism and he asks for an example? Sounds to me like he is in exactly the right place. He even came up with an example himself of someone who wasn't for revisionism but for denial. A subtile difference I think. Not that I agree you should be locked up for denying something just like that. It lies in the details.
    You mean you don't have any examples? How are you so certain people are locked up for it then? I think he asked one of the most relevant questions in this thread so far.
     
  8. storch

    storch banned

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    No, Asmodean, everyone in this thread did research and presented it, except for a few. In answer to the research of others, Odon simply says that he doesn't believe it. That is the course of least resistance, but hardly an argument.

    The reason I told him we have no argument is because there is no arguing with someone who believes that people should be jailed for expressing disbelief in something and seeking to back it up with research as well.

    Ernst Zundel does not deny the holocaust; he challenged the six million number and the method and causes of death. Did you not do any research before speaking? Even the New York Times and Wahington Post revised the numbers, as did the Polish authority. What should we do with them?

    Rudolf proved that the walls of the tiny delousing rooms at Auschwitz had high cyanide concentrations whilst the large putative "gas chambers" rooms had zero or negligible cyanide content. Rudolf's findings were corroborated by at least three independent expert analyses. The "gas chambers" hoax was an opportunistic scam based on the fact that the Germans did actually use Zyklon B (hydrogen cyanide) in order to fumigate and delouse the internees' clothing in an attempt to reduce the number of typhoid victims. As long ago as 1992, the Head of Archives and Senior Curator at the Polish government's Auschwitz State Museum admitted to a Jewish researcher on videotape (available as a free download) that the "gas chamber" at the Auschwitz I main camp was reconstructed from an air raid shelter after the war. The Simon Wiesenthal Center was caught red-handed forging fake "smoke" onto wartime photographs of Auschwitz.

    I found that to be of interest. Do you have anything to refute it?
     
  9. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    I reacted in this thread to the OP in regards to Odon's question. I have read and watched enough victims and witnesses' accounts to believe they are not full of shit. People were gassed to death deliberatly.
    So I agree with the op: if we have something to wonder about we should be able to discuss it but if the person who starts the discussion can not or won't even tell how HE got his conviction about people getting locked up for discussing it when asked I think it's not a very open conversation about the subject. Because it remains a sensitive subject I feel if people want to talk about it they should clearly state what they mean and/or how they got to their opinion. And expect to explain themselves. If they won't people are right in saying it may be an exercise of free speech but not a useful one.
    So to be clear, OP can not expect a lofty conversation about this particular subject just because he has the right of free speech. If he doesn't share and explain his own thoughts they will be asked for. If those questions are ignored I for one do not particpate in his jolly convo.
     
  10. Hoppípolla

    Hoppípolla Senior Member

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    I did make clear that this thread is not about me but about general discussion of this topic :)

    Also you didn't provide any counter-evidence to storch's post, you basically said "It's wrong because I say it's wrong" lol :)
     
  11. storch

    storch banned

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    At a historic 1985 trial in Toronto, witnesses were grilled for the first time ever over the existence of the alleged "gas chambers," and it was found that no such testimony would stand up. On the fourth day of this trial, a marvellous climax was reached when Zundel's lawyer Doug Christie put these questions to a top "Holocaust" expert Dr Raul Hillberg, author of the multi-volume, multi-edition work, The Destruction of the European Jews:


    Christie: Can you give me one scientific report that shows the existence of gas chambers anywhere in Nazi-occupied territory?


    Hilberg: I'm at a loss.

    _____________________________________

    OK, Asmodean, you've read and watched enough victim's and witness's accounts to believe they are not full of shit. That's fine. There are also witness accounts that conflict with what you speak of. This thread is a good forum in which to discuss the merits of our beliefs about these things. What I've posted above simply points to something. It's up to the reader what it points to. There's no crime in pointing, just as there is no crime in disbelieving aspects of historical events.
     
  12. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    That's how it must seem. I only want to say I understand this thread is not about you and I don't want to make it about you but still you have to answer asked to you first. Even if it's not about you the maker of the thread is supposed to contribute to it, right? So before I would answer anybody else here I would also first like to know (just like Odon basicly) where you found that people are being locked up just for discussing it. A very on topic and relevant question is it not? We do not deny people have been locked up because they deny the holocaust and I have even already expressed my opinion about that. Now I first want to know some examples if you have them. I do not refute that there haven't been people locked up, but first wanna know where the creator of this topic comes from :2thumbsup:
     
  13. storch

    storch banned

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    Indy,

    When did I say that the holocaust never happened?
     
  14. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    We agree about that. It's not a crime by definition. Doesn't seem anybody here so far that thinks otherwise.
     
  15. storch

    storch banned

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    In the past few years three prominent revisionists have been arrested for challenging the traditional Holocaust account: Ernst Zundel, Germar Rudolf, and David Irving. Zundel, a flamboyant publisher and promoter of right-wing literature in Canada, was arrested in February 2003 in Tennessee, for violating United States immigration statutes. He was quickly deported to Canada and held in prison for two years as a “national security threat.” In March 2005 Zundel was deported once again, this time to his native Germany, where he was charged with distributing hate literature, and with maintaining a U.S.-based revisionist Web site. In February 2007 he was sentenced to five years in prison, the maximum allowable under current German law. Revisionists are evidently a dangerous lot; no leniency shall be granted.

    Germar Rudolf, a one-time doctoral student in chemistry in Germany, published the influential revisionist works Vorlesungen über Zeitgeschichte (“Lectures on Contemporary History,” 1993) and Grundlagen zur Zeitgeschichte (“Foundations of Contemporary History,” 1994). In a throwback to the Middle Ages, his books were not only confiscated, they were burned. Tried in 1996, he was sentenced to fourteen months in prison. Rudolf fled to the U.S. but was arrested on immigration charges in late 2005 and deported to Germany. In March 2007, just one month after salting away Zundel, the German legal system sentenced Rudolf to two and a half years in jail.

    Noted British writer and historian David Irving came slowly and hesitantly to revisionism, over a period of several years.7 He had been sympathetic to the German side at least since his 1977 book Hitler’s War, but did not start to seriously question the Holocaust until the mid-1980s. It was not so much his writings as his speeches and interviews that got Irving into trouble. In 1993 Deborah Lipstadt labeled him a denier and neo-Nazi sympathizer in her book Denying the Holocaust. Irving sued for libel, losing in 2000. He was then arrested in Austria in November 2005 for an act of “denial” committed sixteen years earlier, back in 1989. A Viennese court sentenced him to three years in prison in February 2006, though he was granted early release in November of that year.

    _______________________________

    I did say, "Hard to believe that you could go to jail in other countries for examining the details of the holocaust and asking questions about it."

    That statement was not inaccurate. The above examples would seem to bear that out. Those guys examined the details and asked questions about it. As far as going to prison for discussing it in public, who knows? But I sincerely doubt that anyone who has researched the issue is going to publicly express findings that are contrary to established beliefs. There is no doubt that the three men I just posted about will serve as an example of what one might expect for becoming too outspoken about their contrary findings.

    _____________________________________

    Odon: What has imprisoned somebody is denial. (maybe this thread needs a little revision)

    e.g: David Irving was sentenced to three years in prison after he admitted denying the Holocaust.

    This isn't questioning the No.s this is just outright denying it even happened (regardless of No.s).

    ______________________________________

    Maybe it's just me, but Odon's words almost seem to be expressing some kind of justification for jailing these guys.
     
  16. Hoppípolla

    Hoppípolla Senior Member

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    I really want to find an uncensored youtube-like website. It seems that a lot of the Holocaust revisionist videos on youtube are suspiciously old.

    I'll check all around though. I tend to learn much better when it's through video, for some weird reason. It's a big topic and there's a lot to learn. Most likely what I've learned so far is only scratching the surface :)

    EDIT -- Also I think this thread is already really good, at least to me. I am learning a significant amount just by reading posts and links here.
     
  17. Indy Hippy

    Indy Hippy Zen & Bearded

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    It would seem to me that most of the evidence in those trials, 85-88, was based around the fact that cyanide and other known chemicals couldn't be found in any real amounts within the "gas chambers" of the concentration camps. If you actually look at facts about cyanide you may see why. Check this link
    Cyanide: Questions and Answers
    Most concentration camps were located in Poland. Poland is known for being seasonally humid, having fair amounts of rainfall and during the winter time is often very frosty and prone to a fair amount of snow. Cyanide degrades very quickly in wet environs.
    Edit: Cyanide in soil also degrades within' 1-2 hours. Therefore contaminated evidence at burial sites is minimal.
     
  18. Hoppípolla

    Hoppípolla Senior Member

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    So why was it still in the walls of the delousing rooms?

    And thanks again for the great posts, storch. I'm only just truly fathoming all the great information being thrown my/our way :)

    Seems that people really are imprisoned over often relatively small disagreements with the official story, when really, as I say, we should have free speech.

    It really is very sad. I don't know what is happening to us when even speaking out against an official story is punishable by book burning and imprisonment. 1984, right? :(

    It's only about certain topics though, and the Holocaust is without doubt THE most sensitive topic to debate in mainstream discussion.


    EDIT -- I've actually seen a few videos of David Irving including a speech. I like that guy, despite hearing mixed things about him.
     
  19. fraggle_rock

    fraggle_rock Member

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    This thread is a perfect example of why it's so hard to find the truth online, and to a lesser extent why free speech isn't always a good thing.

    In my experience, most people who deny the holocaust probably have an agenda, and it usually involves trying to soften how people typically receive Nazism, which tends to also connect to all kinds of intolerance and hate.

    I don't know what "really" happened, but I definitely think that there was a genocide and that it was widespread. I don't think it's so different from other genocides, but it's rare in that the UN came together and actually did something about it.

    Nowadays they just ignore it.
     
  20. odonII

    odonII O

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    Wrong.

    [​IMG]
     
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