As-salam alaykum السلام عليكم

Discussion in 'Islam' started by Resistance isn't futile, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    :dizzy2:
     
  2. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    What do Christians say about gays in those countries?
     
  3. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Seems to me we're running into the same problem of over-generalizing about religions that we encounter in discussions of the inherent violent and warlike character of Christianity. Islam comes in lots of different flavors. The Salafi/Whahbi brand of Sunni Islam and Iranian Shia Islam are repressive to say the least, but then there are the Sufis, Rumi, the Hanafi madhhabs, and the relatively moderate regimes of the UAE..
     
  4. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Thanks. This imam is really good. i wish more Americans could hear more of these messages, although I'm not sure they'd be able to follow because of the way he switches back and forth from Arabic to English. But his view of the Qur'an and the hadith seems to be on solid ground and very different from the bilge spouted by ISIS.
     
  5. deleted

    deleted Visitor

    Hamza Yusef has many videos, many of them, if not all condemning Isis ideology..
     
  6. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

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    Anything he says to condemn ISIS is made void by the completely accepted concept of abrogation. Any peaceful meccan verses cited from the prophet are made null and void by his later medina verses which are all more violent. as muhammad approached the end of his life and became more of a warlord, he is said to have come even closer to allah.

    No compulsion in religion? great. Wait, slay and subjugate the infidel? how does that fit with what you just said? Oh, what you're saying now takes precedence? ok.

    Muslims will need to, as a group, think long and hard about abrogation or the quran is nothing but a manual on how to destroy civilization.
     
  7. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    As I understand it, abrogation applied to later passages of the Qur'an superseding earlier ones, and it ended with the death of the Prophet Muhammad. it isn't an on-going process of re-interpretation to suit the needs of the moment. I don't think there's any passage in the Qur'an or the ahadith that takes killing outside of a self-defensive context or just war, with careful restrictions against taking innocent lives. The terrorist ideology of ISIS comes from amateurs who have the theological acumen of Donald Trump or Ted Cruz. The new ISIS recruits get their theology, appropriately enough, from Islam for Dummies.
     
  8. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    For relatively Progressive perspectives on Islam, see:

    Reza Aslan (2012) No God But God.

    Mustafa Akol (2011). Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty

    Feisal Abdul Rauf,(2004) , What’s Right with Islam, New York: Harper Collins Publishers

    Omid Safi, (2003) Progressive Muslims

    Nasr Abu Zayd.(2004) Rethinking the Qur'an: Towards a Humanistic Hermeneutics. Utrecht: Humanistics University Press




    Muslims for Progressive Values (MPV)
     

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