What would an Electable Socialist Party 'look like' in th USA & the UK ?

Back in the seventies I would have thought of myself as quite hard left. But as you say mistakes were made, and what we face now is a different situation, and different models and solutions are needed.

I agree that basic services such as energy etc should not be in private hands.
And also that we need individualism, inividual freedom of thought too, free from the old dogmas of both the right and the old left.
I do think that big busnesses have somehow to be brought to heel. Massive multi nationals it seems simply have too much power.

The way I see it, its more a question of taming capitalism than killing it.
Things have to be levelled to some degree, and the excesses reined in. I dont just mean excess wealth in the hands of a very few, but also the whole pattern of consumerism as we know it. That is unless we want to find ourselves quite soon in a world stripped of resouces.

Countries like the UK and America could make a big contribution. We could lead the way. We could harnass our potential in order to find serious solutions to the problems the world is going to face in the next century. And at the same time build a better, more equitable and just society for ourselves.

As for corruption, I have seen it in Unions as well as Govt. departments and business. When I worked for the local council in the late seventies, it was corrupt from top to bottom, with everyone, me included, on the fiddle.

Anyway, the situation we face is extremely complex, in an un precedented way, and we need to find new solutions. An element of socialism would though I think have to figure in any model we might create for a better society.

 

Could not have put it better myself. Yes, one of the toughest areas would be in working with corporate capitalism. I recall,foriegn car manufacturers actually threatening to pull out of 1960s England in protest at the Wilson Government devaluing via decimalisation. The threat was very real & worry was ,at the time,that this might cause a landslide effect of essential investors undremining the Labour Govt' via masive lay offs.

As you indicate,our attitude toward consumerism needs to be understood in global resourse terms.Also, the traditional working class belief was that getting into debt was a thing to be avoided,if one possibly could. Our ethic was to save for items we wanted/needed. Capitalism,including the main political Parties,encourage borrowing. When you are financially indebted you're much less likely to protest,be politically active or strike.

 

i never thought about it that way but it makes perfect sense. knowing the way our government bobbles things i am not sure they did it with that thought but it wouldnt surprise me.

 

Especially when you have the likes of Wonga.

 

What's wrong with 'wonga'?

 

High interest rates. Very annoying adverts. Massive profits on the back of people struggling to get by.

 

Thatchers war against the Unions tends to be how she's remembered,along with the Falklands conflict. The hard truth that the Left in Britain at that time could not accept (& I have to include myself in this) was that there was corruption within the Unions & an undemocratic willingness to use industrial muscle to bring down elected Governments. For the powerful Unions,then, their ends justified almost any means. Even the center & Right wings of the Labour Party were intimidated. Thatcher moved moved Britains entire value base (with it the Labour Party) to the Right.

Encouraging working people to buy shares in de-nationalised companies,buy hitherto publicly owned Council Housing,take out mortgages & loans,take out private medical insurance were only some of the ways in which traditional working class value bases were undermined. In fairness,it should be added that the loss of traditional heavy industries to the ,mostly,Far East is also a factor.

Blair & Brown continued Thatcherism in Government,having seen the Labour Partys Clause 4 (a major pillar of its identity as a Socialist Party) scrapped. Privatisation of the nationalised industries,including our NHS has continued.

There is no longer an effective Left Party in British politics.

 

I was young at the time, but I recall it being almost intoxicating after the miners brought down the Heath government. Unfortunately one of the after effects of that was to open the door to Mrs. T with her new right ideology taking over as tory leader. Heath was a tame pussy cat by comparison.

I think your overall analysis is pretty much correct. I d say though that regarding the loss of heavy industry, in the case of the coal mines, their closure was much more politically motivated. At the time I saw it as a way of punishing the miners, and I still think theres something in that.
A coal industry would be very useful for the UK now, and new technologies can ensure it can burned cleanly. I think one day they will have to get that coal, and there are big reserves of it there.

 

^^ I was a Miner,Northeast Durham coalfield in 70s,theres massive coal stocks,estimated 12 foot seams,pure coal,3/4 miles out under the North Sea,there for the taking , BlackBillBlake. Yeah,Thatcher & the establishment knew it too. The pit closures were simple industrial vandalism.

As I understand it though,& I don't claim much knowledge on environmental issues, Carbon Capture technology,that might filter greenhouse gase emissions were we to biuld more Coal fired power stations, is nowhere close, development wise, to being production ready. Estimates Ive heard is they'd cut 90% of carbon emissions at best. Could be years before Carbon filtering becomes feasible, as I understand it.

 

Maybe if they invest in developing the technology it could be feasible in the future.
The alternatives, neuclear, or importing increasingly expensive gas, dont seem to me like a very attractive solution to future energy needs. Renewables are just not going to give us enough power.

But hey, a Geordie boy. And an ex miner. Respect.
I am no expert on energy, and tend maybe to get carried away by my own rhetoric at times. But all that coal sitting there, while we import crap quality coal...doesnt make sense to me. X amont of coal gets burned anyway. I have only just now moved to a place where I dont have a coal fire. And although I know carbon emissions are bad, I actaully think I am going to miss it this winter.

 

Take a look at the election results produced by the largest cities in the U.S.
The UK politics doesn't interest me.