"Good," "Evil," or "The Illusion?"

Discussion in 'Metaphysics and Mysticism' started by LostGnosticOccultum, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. LostGnosticOccultum

    LostGnosticOccultum Guest

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    What do we consider to be "Good?" How about "Evil/Bad?"

    M"any" of us have had experiences we deem "Good," and likewise we deem "Bad/Evil." But why is it that we define these experiences with these labels? Why do we set the apart as to be of a dualistic nature? To understand this we must first dive into the meaning of each of these terms, for one can easily confuse his or her self and end up in a place that he or she does not desire to be.

    From this dualistic perspective;
    *Good - seeks to bring peace and harmony to ALL by creating order.
    i) Order - laws, rules, guidelines: most perceive this as a bondage which attempts to act as a prison or a dominus and we, the slaves.

    *Evil - seeks liberation from the bondage of the "Good" and replace it with "Freedom" bringing true free-will.
    i) Freedom - the ability to act within the "random" and become set above all things as one's own "god."
    ii) Random - most perceive this as the "Chaos," or the "Void." This chaos/void is, according to mainstream Gnosticism, what birthed the universe and ultimately is the "source," of the ALL.


    Ok, now that we have the two clearly defined, let us look at what sets them apart. Now at first glance one would say, "It's obvious! Good seek harmony while Evil seeks Chaos." However this is not so; chaos or void IS harmony. "How so?" you might ask? Well the answer is simple, if "In the beginning was Chaos/void," then returning to a state of void/chaos is returning to the original harmony. So the only difference we truly have is the fact that "Good," wishes to find harmony by adding rules and guidelines and "Evil," wishes to tare down the rules and let ALL return to a state of Chaos/void thus restoring the original harmony.

    See this is the illusion; to divide and separate the truth as a whole; to exist as a separate being. We spend so any years of our lives trying to hide our true selves from others that in the process we hide it from ourself and become truly separate. We then define our existence as if we are the "god(s)," of our own universe and are outside of the ALL, not able to see the whole, the Harmony that IS.

    From here I will leave the discussion to you all and see where some perspective comes from within the forum, however I will be chiming in as I must.

    GOD Bless, be Love, Light, and Peace, LGO:sultan::peace:
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Jo King

    Jo King wannabe

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    You're funny
     
  3. LostGnosticOccultum

    LostGnosticOccultum Guest

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    Funny? How so?
    Also Why would you comment if you have nothing of value to add?
     
  4. bird_migration

    bird_migration ~

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    Good and bad are individual values, constructed from many (twisted) views and depending on where and when you are born.

    On metafysical level there is no good or bad. Just us simple humans need to add value to everything.
     
  5. LostGnosticOccultum

    LostGnosticOccultum Guest

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    Exactly!
     
  6. Driftwood Gypsy

    Driftwood Gypsy Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    morality is relative and reality is an illusion.
     
  7. bird_migration

    bird_migration ~

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    How is reality an illusion? I am pretty sure I am really sitting here typing this reply.
     
  8. Cherea

    Cherea Senior Member

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    Nietzsche couldn't have put it better: "There's no moral phenomena; only moral interpretation of phenomena."
     
  9. bird_migration

    bird_migration ~

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    Yep, he surely was better with words than I am.
     
  10. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    Good for you, you're lost in the illusion... part of me thinks you're supposed to be :p

    Solid/liquid/gas = illusion... varying states of vibration

    Over 99% of what we see around us as solid is free empty space

    Observer effect shows us that an observer can shape reality

    We live in a hologram :sunny:
     
  11. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    You don't like fun?
     
  12. I think it is, perhaps, illusory that we ever transcended chaos. Things seem orderly; that doesn't make them essentially any less random. Just because we get used to things, we place a quality on them, say we understand them fully, when really we do not.
     
  13. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    I suggest the instinct for self preservation/extension is in deed the moral phenomena and our moral fortitude and protections extend naturally to those and to which we identify as our own.
     
  14. bird_migration

    bird_migration ~

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    I do follow your reasoning and I might even agree, but how can you tell me with apparent surety that I am 'lost in the illusion'?
    What makes you so sure (arrogant) to tell me that this is indeed an illusion?
    Is it the same surety that makes religious people believe there is a god (or gods for that matter)?
     
  15. Cherea

    Cherea Senior Member

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    This is pretty good. Thank you! :)
     
  16. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    I'm sorry you took that as arrogance, it wasn't projected as such.

    My comment was based on the quote of yours that was in the same post... just because you are sitting there typing on a computer, doesn't mean it either is or isn't an illusion.

    What you stated is independent of the illusion or non-illusion.

    It could be an illusion, yet it is not supposed to be perceived as such... it's supposed to be taken as a pure reality... if there can be such a thing... so it was more of a "congratulations, you're playing the game properly"... whereas I would love to break the rules of the game :)

    Quantum physics is demonstrating how illusory our reality is and a large portion of mainstream science is reflecting that interpretation in one way or another.

    Even though we have a form, our form is nothing more than pure energy - just as the things we see around us, at their core - are energy.

    Matter is an illusion, a side effect of the interpretation we place on the "reality" we perceive. A way to interact with the world around us... all we need at this level of development to survive, perhaps.

    Personal experience certainly goes a long way to back up the ideas I've been playing with, yes - you can completely dismantle this reality, play with it, construct a brand new one.
     
  17. Lynnbrown

    Lynnbrown Firecracker

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    About the illusion we are supposedly lost in...also about that hologram...

    Why are there so many of us that are in circumstances that we have tried over and over AND OVER to change, to no avail?

    When I broke my ankle last year and wound up having to go through surgery to get a plate and 7 screws, that dang sure didn't feel illusory...nor did the copies of the x-rays I now possess seem less than totally real. < All things I had never even imagined could or would happen to me before the event(s) were happening.

    I could go on and on with specific physical examples; but, I'm sure y'all get the point.

    So...if it's all just illusions and a hologram, I REALLY want instructions as to how to change the crap I have going on! :)
     
  18. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    Just because you don't understand the choice you made, doesn't preclude you from making it.

    We try to define every choice as conscious specifically within this reality - what if it isn't?

    I've been shown that I made a choice outside of this lifetime to be here now... why, I don't fully understand yet.

    While I am not trying to trivialise the unpleasantness you went through, it could perhaps be rather boring if we all had the exact same experience wouldn't it?

    All possibility means all possibility... we just happen to live in a universe that is structured in this manner at the moment.

    There could be realities where pain is non-existent, or we could perhaps even program ourselves to process pain in an alternate manner in this one.

    I know it sounds like a cliche... but positive outlooks really do seem to have a positive benefit on your surroundings. Think positively and you will manifest positivity.

    Although, that doesn't mean our lives won't have challenges. Might we get bored if everything was easy? Could be that simple, i'm not saying it is for sure - just an idea.

    Think back to that time - did you learn anything from it? Did anything happen to you, your family or anywhere in your life that may not have happened to you had you not gone through that ordeal? Did you see anything positive from it, no matter how small?

    Could it have altered how you perceive other people in some way? etc etc... What we get out of parts of our experience may not be recognisable to us even... frustrating I know.

    From some of the things I've seen... it could even be as simple as a game we are playing with each other... the good vs evil game. Of course it's seemingly a bit more "real" than playing a video game... but the risk adds more to the game, surely.

    When you step out of the game for a bit, it looks more trivial than it does from inside the game. That doesn't make it unimportant... just something that can let you appreciate things in different ways.

    A spiritual being having a human experience :)

    There is not much I can claim to be "truth" that I have brought out of my experience... but that this experience is just one of many, I'm certain.



    This knowledge appears to have either been lost or hidden from us which is a great shame... imagine how wonderful the world would be if everyone knew this to be fact... that the only universal truth is a love and we're a part of that.
     
  19. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Matter is expression of energy, or energetic expression. Perception however is not knowledge but can lead to it and here is where illusion may substitute for the apprehension of real things, and temptation is the desire to have illusion be real. All disillusionment has come from the exposure of an error in identification. An illusion is a misinterpretation of an experience of sensory perception. It is not meaningful to say that the world is an illusion, but it is meaningful to say that we may be mistaken about what we see.
     
  20. How can you say that to know and to be aren't the same things? Undiluted perception is knowledge, I think. Of something real, even if it can't explain that reality. You are aware that it exists, which is knowledge.

    I agree that it is not sensible to say the world is an illusion. Maybe that's just a cozy way for people to trick themselves into getting comfortable with death. The universe is definitely self-aware, but we're so caught up in our personalities, we're in no position to say how we relate to time and space in a sensible way at all. We're pretty much just crazies, I figure it, the lot of us.

    We seemed to have popped into existence and it seems like we'll have to be pretty damned lucky to get to have a relatively decent time FOR ETERNITY. Some people in this world don't even get a decent time for a minute.

    So what I am questioning is what possible parameters could keep this "illusion" of reality together after this world? In what possible way can I maintain a sense of identity, once I have awoken from the notion that I am a mortal being? Will there be a new threat even scarier than this first death, somehow?
     

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