Capitalism Sucks!

....the wages in mexico and vietnam are what's hurting the speed of china's boom, it's not that it's a planned economy and that's why they do okay.... china is a murderous communist disaster, and so was your pal, trotsky. I forget if it was him or lennin that preferred killing people by burying them, or drowning.... I THINK trotsky was the burri-er. I also forget who was responsible for general order 171. But they where both dispicable people. When you pick the "other" side, you're just betting on the other side of the same murderous coin.

 

No, the title of the Tread is " Capitalism sucks".

China, no matter how they are structured internally have been building 'capital' through the exploitation of capitalist values for decades. In fact economically they probably do a better job at capitalism than the US, as proven buy the fact that they have weathered the recent economic crisis far better that any European or western country's.

 

As an economic system, I can think of nothing at all preferable to Capitalism.

 

dont worry about them, they have 9 million relatives in our country sending half their check back home.

 

That's what I call voting with your feet.

 

.....

What a cowardly way of absolving one's self of worry about a serious problem

 

Are we still talking about capitalism?

 

i think they are quite brave for going into an unknown country to get a job with nothing but the clothes on their back.

 

Capitalism Has Outlived its Purpose. Capitalism is Rotting from Within & Without


Capitalism had its progressive era, but that era is over. The American bourgeoisie, for example, used to invest in factories, railroads, etc. Now the American bourgeoisie makes their money on speculative schemes like derivatives.

In Europe capitalism is in real bad shape. Much of the continent is in crisis. Working people are forced to suffer under austerity measures, and they’re forced to sacrifice for the benefit of the bankers and the rest of the ruling class. The bourgeoisie are forcing the European workers to pay for the economic collapse caused by the boom and bust cycle of capitalism.

The situation in Europe resembles a freefall. The more austerity measures these governments impose the more the economy declines.

Meanwhile, fascist groups like Golden Dawn in Greece, are attacking immigrants in a similar manner that the Nazis attacked Jews.

In capitalist Latin America where I have spent much of my life, the vast majority of people live in poverty while the rich live it up.

The time has come to throw capitalism in the garbage can. To do that you need a workers revolution. Follow the road of Lenin & Trotsky.

One of the posters made false claims regarding the government of Lenin & Trotsky. Remember, that under Lenin & Trotsky women got right to vote one year before they got the right to vote in the US. Women got the right to an abortion in the Soviet Union in 1919. Women were also given the right to free quality childcare. Homophobic laws were taken off the books in 1919 as well.

It was Stalin who took away many of these rights. Stalin was a scumbag. Much of the repression the anti-communists talk about took place under Stalin.

However, even under Stalin working people still had the right to a job, free child care, free medical care, and affordable housing. People in the USA don't have these rights.

Here in the USA we are losing what rights we have. The Republican Congress passed and Obama signed into law NDAA: which gives the Army the right to disappear Americans without so much as a trial. And then there's the Patriot Act. And the war on drugs. One out of every four persons in jail in the world is in jail in the USA.

Choosing between the Democrats and Republicans is like choosing between AIDS and cancer. Both political parties support the bourgeoisie. We need to build a workers party.

 

Capitalism needs to be re-configured so that there is a fairer distribution of wealth, a kind of hybrid between Capitalism and Socialism. The company bosses can have a wage rather than a profit share, whilst the profits are channelled back into the company to improve it and increased wages for its workers, shareholders can have a fixed percentage based on a share of the profits. You are right in what you say about this uncontrolled Capitalism and the greed it generates, however you cannot force people into a soviet style workers system, we all love our material goods and Communism simply will not work in the 21st century and beyond. One day when we evolve into a more caring species, money will no longer be needed and we will all work for the benefit of everything.

 

......individual is brave?

In real life, and in the non-argumentative arts, he may well be.

But in debate with his face hidden, he in a coward of the worst sort.

 

Reforming Capitalism Is Pointless!


Reforming capitalism is pointless. It's time to throw capitalism in the garbage can.

Capitalism has rotted to the point where it’s beyond repair. Throughout Europe workers are suffering under endless austerity measures, while the big banks and the bourgeoisie are profiting from this misery.

In the United States we are in the worst recession since the Great Depression, with no end in sight. Of course, that hasn't hurt corporate profits, which are up while the American workers suffer unemployment and stingy wages.

The unfair distribution of wealth has reached obscene proportions. Half-a-dozen members of the Walton family (that own Walmart) now have more wealth than 90 million Americans combined.

Things in the Third World are even worse. Half of the human race survives on less than two dollars a day.

And it's naïve to think that you can reform the system for the betterment of the workers. Throughout history workers have paid for this illusion with their lives. Leftist Chilean workers & students were slaughtered by the thousands in the aftermath of General Pinochet's coup d'état in 1973. Similarly, ten thousand leftist Chinese workers who thought that they could work with the Chinese bourgeoisie to form a "progressive" government were slaughtered by General Chaing Kai-shek back in 1927. Illusions in a "progressive" Spanish bourgeoisie was equally disastrous during the Spanish Civil War.

When the workers have the illusion that they can reform the capitalist system they pay for this illusion with their lives.

Many workers in America think that Barack Obama or the Democrats are the answer. They couldn't be more wrong. Barack Obama has attacked civil liberties just like Bush. Barack Obama signed NDAA into law. NDAA gives the military the right to disappear Americans without so much as a trial.

And why should the workers share the wealth with the bourgeoisie? The bourgeoisie are worthless. They live like 19th century French royalty and they contribute nothing to society. In fact, the bourgeoisie's relentless pursuit of profit brings endless war, union-busting, ecological devastation, and economic crisis like the one were experiencing now. And this latest economic crisis was caused by the bourgeoisie's derivatives schemes. If you want to know who is causing endless suffering in the world it's the bourgeoisie and their capitalist politicians.

When something doesn't work and is beyond repair you throw it away in the garbage can. Capitalism is like an old used-up broken-down car that needs to be towed to the garbage dump.

The time has come for the workers to rule, and for the bourgeoisie to get a job. The time has come for socialism. The time has come for workers to rule!

And socialism is not a Stalinist dictatorship. Socialism is workers democracy. Today’s socialists/communists are Trotskyists. Trotskyists are opposed to a Stalinist type dictatorship. Trotskyists want to form a workers government where the elected leaders are subject to instant recall.

Right now there is no workers democracy anywhere in the world. There is only bourgeois democracy. Bourgeois democracy is democracy for the rich.

Under bourgeois democracy workers have the right to be unemployed, become homeless, die for lack of affordable medical care, etc. Under bourgeois democracy the workers have the right to decide which capitalist politician will administer union-busting, endless wars, endless austerity, etc.

Under workers democracy workers will have the right to elect their leaders, plus workers will have the right to a job, a decent minimum wage, free quality medical care, free quality childcare, affordable quality housing, equal pay for equal work, free abortion on demand, etc.

Socialism is workers democracy. Power to the working class! Throw the bourgeoisie out of power! Throw capitalism in the garbage can!

 

No Feudalism for me thank you.

I do not want to express my fealty to a powerful head-of-government who provides an Iron Rice Bowl.

 

You read the guy's shit, and he gets you going.... but, you think, he is raving about bourgeoisie, and as such, is probably a typical murderous marxist/leninist type.

And then he says he's not, and you're like okay, cool.

And then he says he's a trotskyist.

Trotsky was a murderous piece of shit, just like lenin and stalin and the rest of their "vanguard party". He was directly responsible for terrible atrocities and had horrible ideas, and no, FUCK you.

You are no better than any bourgeoisie or anyone else. You are championing disasterous policies that have ravaged the world's working class and where never anything but grim anyways.

There is a way forward, which is not "free market" or trotskyist. It's a system that cares for it's free citizens, like the scandanavian nations.

Trotsky is a lame excuse for bolshevik fucktards. He's the one of that nasty group that got away with a less-scathed image, mostly because he was stalin's scapegoat, so he became a good guy for bolshevik apologists.... enemy of our enemy, right?

On one extreme, capitalism is really pretty bad, tyranny by means of disproportionate wealth distribution. On the other extreme, communism was born in murderous hypocritical fanaticism, and has never changed a bit. The key is a humanist approach that throws all your isms in the bin and takes care of people. A system that works for the people, not a system that follows party lines or ideologies.

 

Rooshak has some trouble debating, he cannot tell the difference between debate and obscene insults.

However, I do want to talk about the difference between Trotskyism and Stalinism.

The difference between Trotskyism and Stalinism is like the difference between night and day. Trotskyists support gay rights and equality. The Soviet Union under Lenin & Trotsky took all homophobic laws off the books back in 1919. Stalin brought back homophobia, and there has been repression against homosexuals in many Stalinist countries.

Trotskyists are strong supporters of the rights of women. The Soviet Union gave women the right to an abortion back in 1919. The Soviet Union also gave women the right to vote a year before in the United States. Women in the Soviet Union also got the right to free childcare, something women in the US still don't have. In addition, long before it happened in the US, women in the Soviet Union were encouraged to take jobs that before were reserved only for men. That was the Soviet Union of Lenin & Trotsky.

Trotskyists strongly criticized the disgusting Stalin-Hitler pact, which was a betrayal of fundamental communist principles. In addition, Trotskyists repeatedly criticized the Stalinists for selling out the international working class. Again and again the Stalinists forced "communist" parties in other countries to unite with an imaginary "progressive" bourgeoisie. Such alliances with a non-existent "progressive" bourgeoisie cost many workers their lives. The "progressive" General Chiang Kai-shek murdered thousands of Chinese workers in Shanghai in 1923. And the left lost the Spanish Civil War because of the Stalinist idiotic policy of looking for a "progressive" bourgeoisie to unite with. Also, Chilean General Pinochet also murdered thousands of "leftists". These are just some of the many bloody setbacks caused by sell-out Stalinist policies.

Trotskyists do not seek any alliance with a "progressive" bourgeoisie. There is no "progressive" bourgeoisie. Trotskyists support a workers revolution, which will bring WORKERS democracy. After a workers revolution the working class will elect pro-worker officials to office, and those officials will be subject to instant recall. Those members of the bourgeoisie that peacefully accept WORKERS democracy will have the right to go get a job. Under socialism, everyone will have the right to a job. The minimum wage will be doubled. All student debt/loans will be canceled. Everyone will have the right to free quality medical care, free higher education, free childcare, free abortion on demand, equal pay for equal work, affordable decent housing, etc. (People should get something for their taxes besides endless war and bailouts for the rich.) And under socialism racial discrimination will not be tolerated, and nor will homophobia. There'll be equal rights for gays and immigrants.

The first step towards accomplishing all of this is to build a workers party. Forget about the Democrats and the Republicans – they're both on the side of the rich.

During the Cold War Trotskyists defended the Soviet Union against American imperialism, while calling for a political revolution by the working class to oust the Stalinist bureaucracy. Today's Trotskyists defend Stalinist countries like China against American imperialism. Trotskyists also defend what remains of the planned economy in China. However, Trotskyists call for a political revolution by the working class against the Stalinist regime in countries like China. Trotskyists support the struggle for workers democracy.

 

I simply asked for common sense, i do not want a world dominated by Capitalism and i do not want a world dominated by the loony left, i want a common sense system where everyone benefits. I guess when you look at what people have already written in this thread, it will be pretty much fucking impossible, cos you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

 

What common sense system is it that would benefit everyone?

 

Was it trotsky that liked drowning, and lennin that liked live burials, or the reverse? I forget.

Probably trotsky was the drowner, he did drown those dozens of thousands of revolting sailors in murmansk, hogtied

I don't care how nice he was to gay people. Stalin was a piece of shit, and trotsky was. Yeah, a lot of the old bolsheveks look like nice guys next to stalin, but that's because we're talking about JOSEF FUCKING STALIN, there's only about one guy who has killed more people in world history, and a handful who have been on par with him in their treatment of their population and their general evil-ness. You can be the hand that crushes the kulaks under lennin, and still look mild-mannered next to stalin -- and that's what trotsky did.

Trotsky even advocated the self-consuming, self-purging model, with his eternal revolution bullshit.

Him and lennin each killed hundreds of thousands-to-millions, "if you want to make an omlet you've got to break a few eggs". Not good guys. Period.

Socialism takes care of people, by aknowledging human nature and disallowing the parts that hurt others through things like taxation, and trying to help with the parts that hurt the individual self. But communism takes a false model of an "ideal" society, and tries to make humanity fit it. And it's a murderous disaster, under trotsky or just about anyone who has ever lead it.

"I am not a marxist" - karl marx

 

i never said a word about individual, the topic was the 9 million latin americans that forage to the north looking for a better life for them and their family's back home

 

Capitalism is a one way road to ecological disaster as it is set up,what with the growing population and the accepted way of 'buy more-buy more now'. There's only one end game for it ,given that it continues as is. That is,chaos at some point ,until total control is re-gained by those who will have insinuated themselves into the power positions. Nothing to fret about. Go back to sleep. Oh--and 'buy more--buy more now'.