Do You Believe in Magic?

Discussion in 'Metaphysics and Mysticism' started by DocWho, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. DocWho

    DocWho Member

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    Do You Believe in Magic? ( or a short history of Ritual Drug use ) :sunny:

    > The progress that has been made rolling back the frontiers of objective knowledge of the world we live in has been relentless. Our horizons have broadended into space & zeroed in on atomic structure. Our world is in a constant state of flux. The strength of the straight-jacket that has always bound us to our objectivity, to the "triva of everydayness", as Heidegger put it, has, however, remained unchanged.

    > Seeing life thru the wrong end of a telescope, is the situation in which people generally find themselves. Getting up, going to work, paying bills, fixing the car - all these things crowd in on us, and in a sense, this pressure helps us
    ( well, some of us ) retain our sanity, "earths" our consciousness and stops most of us from blowing a fuse.
    But ultimately, the preoccupations along a narrow tunnel, which dominate what we deem important, begin to seem meaningless, and above all, DULL.

    > However, there have always been men and women, the magicians, the mystics, the witches who for whatever reasons, have cut themselves off from "normality" in an attempt to "See" their universe rather than be just onlookers. And as an integral part of the "Seeing" exercises, often it was essential to perform exquisitely complete synthesis with nature by consuming plant-based "hallucinogenic" substances.

    > the use of drugs for consciousness raising purposes has only recently constituted a new field of scientific study
    ( 1943 - Hoffman - LSD ) but in another way, it is as old as the Human race itself!

    > Magick, Mysticism & Religion all spring from the feeling that there is more to life than the preoccupations of the rational mind. Plants that alter the preoccupations of this rational mind have been used since before recorded history all over the world for healing as well as for magical and religious rites. Indeed, Magick, medicine and religion were virtually inseparable thru-out the ages, in a practical as well as spiritual sense, because the practitioners themselves were invariably the same individuals. For many oridinary people medicine men, shaman, witches etc. with their herbal remedies were the only doctor's they knew!

    > There is no doubt that for us mortal beings to be able to walk with the "Gods", rather than just talk to them ( "the white man goes to his church and talks to Jesus, the Indian takes Peyote & talks with Jesus!" Chief Q. Parker ), Drugs that induce an altered state of mind play a vital role. The whole operation would have been impossible without them!

    To Quote an early Gnostic Greek Text.. "If you do-not make yourself ONE with "God", you can-not apprehend "God", for like is apprehended by like. Out-leap all body and expand yourself to the unmeasured greatness; outstrip all till you become one with eternity. So you shall apprehend "God"... Be simultaneously everywhere, on sea, land, sky; be at once unborn and in the womb, young and old, dead and beyond death; if you can hold all these things together in your thought at all times and places and substances and qualities and quantities - then you can apprehend "God" - this text was attributed to Hermes Trismegistus, a mythical sage, whose writings exerted a powerful influence on all ritual magick thru the days of the Golden Dawn & Alister Crowley.

    > This passage states that the essence of Ritual Magick ( it being neither satanic or demonic in that the knowledge of "God" is central to it's theme ), is active rather than passive unlike most religions, therein lies the main difference between them. Magick demands we become one with "God" in order to understand "God", ( rather than demand adherence to a cult of subservence ), achieving this thru rituals and initiation, the roots of which are found in Shamanism. The Shamanistic mind was the wellspring from which all humankind's efforts at attaining "Oneness with the Cosmos" have come! Shamanism is not really a "religion", but rather a worldwide "metaphysical" belief dating back to the old stone age, and shared by most "primitive" cultures, that "All is One."

    > the Shaman can put oneself in trance-state, leave the physical body, visit the spirit world - a master of many powers, Powers honed to a keen edge by use of Ayahusca & other etheogenic plants in South America, Amanita Mucaria in Siberia, to give but two examples. Shamanistic rituals are intended to sharpen the mind to the N-th. degree! Some initiation rites involve long and dangerous "vision quests", fasting, immersion in freezing waters, rubbing away a layer or two of skin, enduring the bite of poison snakes and many other tests of endurence!

    > What is important, is the shaman does not put oneself thru hellish initiations only to have the brain dulled into passivity by drugs. the strong purpose behind the ritual drug use prevents any diffusion of effort and contrast sharply with drug use whose only purpose is escape. True, the shaman seeks to escape from the earthbound body, but for those without the rigorous and structured training, experiences and visions wash over the brain unchecked and uncontrolled. The shaman on the other hand, is completely in control.

    > The early Shamans & primitive humans in general, seem to have the same intuitive faculties as animals, & this ties in neatly to Empathy with ones environment & the narrowness of the horizons they had to control. But as Humanity became more complex, sought greater control over the environment and broadened their horizons, more "Gods" were needed for each new enterprise. In the new cities that began to emerge from about 4000 B.C. onwards, Shamanism was largely replaced by Magick & Sorcery, distinguished from Magick by it's use of potions, charms, spells, and so on. There was a very definite link in people's minds between sorcery and knowledge of drugs - the Latin for sorcerer was pharmacus. Sorcery started from everyday consciousness; the desire for power, wealth, possessions and gratification of basic instincts devoid of any transcendental or mystical elements.

    > Before they degenerated, the priests of Zoroaster, the Magi ( who gave their name to Magick ) were about the only city priests to retain elements of Shamanism. They had no temples, worshiped on mountain tops & were natural mystics.

    > Much information on drug use in the Near East has come from the excavations of the Assyrian city of Nineveh, going back as far as 2100 B.C. - written refrences have been found to mandrake, henbane, belladona, cannabis and darnell grass ( a known host of ergot, which also contains LSA, found in morning glory seeds used by the Aztecs ). Knowledge of ergot can be traced back to the Babylonians who gave ergot it's own Goddess. Opium was known as "the plant of life", & the Mesopotamian Tree of Life is shown as a tree with poppy pods. the blue water lily contains apomorphine like alkaloids & this may have been the "Gokam", the water plant of eternal life sought by Gilamesh.

    > A controversial 13th. century French fresno depicts the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden as uncannily similar to Amanita Muscarita.

    > Cannabis, known as azalla & quannapu in Near Eastern writtings, seems to have been used not only in Ritual Magick, but as a Cure-All. Depending on the symptoms it was prescribed for... bronchial pain, bladder trouble, difficult child birth, depression, insomnia & bewitchment! As well as externally for arthritis & swelling! No wonder it was worth more than silver in Babylon, an irony that would not be lost on a Rastafarian!

    > Ancient Egypt was virtually the home of Magick, much use was made of "magic herbs" for divination - the fumes helped the priest "see" the appropriate "God." Mandrake, henbane, hashish, opium & thorn apple
    ( datura stramonium ) featured heavily in Egyptian prescriptions and one method of healing made use of the "narcotic" properties of the blue water lily in a process which involved prayer, hypnosis, exorcism and sacrifice! the priests also discovered herb extracts which could induce temporary clairvoyance, usually administered as a sacred potion.

    > In Ancient Greece, the ecstatic techniques of Magick were no better demonstrated than by the Eleusinian Mysteries, in which the initiates took a ceremonial drink called Kykeon containing water, flour & mint, Which caused intense visions, which were believed by Wasson, Hoffman & Ruck to be due to the presence of ergot. For 2000 years ( until the 4th. century A.D. ) the rites, which centered around worship of the Goddess Demeter were celebrated & many of the most famous Greek & Romans were initiates, including Alcibiades, Aristophanes, Plato, Pliny, Plutarch, Socrates, Xenophon & Many others.

    > R. G. Wasson also believes the Soma of the Hindu Rig-Veda text to be amanita muscaria.

    > There were other mysteries such as those of Mithras, Attis & Cybele and all were eagerly lapped-up by the Romans. Rome experienced an "occult" revival similar to the youth culture of the 1960's. It emerged in the wake of scientific progress, the decline of traditional religion & a dissatisfaction with rationalism. There was much talk of a new "Golden Age" and many cults sprang-up based on Eastern religions.

    > With the passing of the Roman era, Europe went into decline, broken apart by warring fractions - the Dark Ages.
    Yet whatever the political or economic climate might have been, Ritual Magick continued to flourish.
    However, it now had to face it's biggest threat to it's existence so far - Christianity.

    > In earlier days, Magick & sorcery had been sanctified at the highest levels, but the situation changes as what began as a politically motivated attack by the Church & the State against Magick in general &
    specific sects like the Cathars, Templars & Waldensians in particular, culminated in hysterical vendettas against hundreds of thousands of innocent people, condemned to death by being branded as witches.

    > Theories about Witchcraft & the nature of witch hunts are many... Witchcraft, like Magick, operates on two levels. the first is the witch as healer and, as they were normally women, as sorceress; making up potions and remedies to cure or kill in the traditional "hubble bubble" sense. Mandrake root was a central plant in the witch pharmacopedia and great ritual was attached to it's gathering, similar to the Peyote hunts of the Mexican Huichol indians.

    > Witchcraft also operated on a higher level of Ritual Magick. If the old hag stirring her pot was one major component of the popular image of the witch - then the flight to Sabbat on a broomstick was the other.
    Obviously, the reality of such a happening is nonsense if one considers the question in relation to the drug experience & astral projection.

    > Battista Porta, in 1568 describes the use and prepartion of
    "Flying Ointment"... 3 grams oeanthol, 50 grams opium, 30 grams betel, 6 grams tannis leaf, 15 grams henbane, 15 grams belladonna, 250 grams hashish, 5 grams blister fly tragacanth, powerderd suger.
    Porta then paid the witch to demonstrate the anointment procedure, she demanded to be left alone in the room, but thru a crack in the door,
    Porta watched the witch strip naked and rub herself all-over ( not just in and around her ummmm... "privates", which allows the broom rightly or wrongly to be regarded as a phallic symbol. )
    Apparently the witch fell into a deep sleep and awoke later to give a garbled account of flying over the mountains to a sabbat with Diana, the witch Goddess.

    > Amanita Muscarita, thought to stimulate ESP, also turns up in 15th. century witch recipes, Henbane drinks were offered to young initiates during the induction ceremony prior to membership in a wicca circle, and a drug induced sabbat is vividly described in Valery Brussor's novel "Fiery Angel" which Prokoviev turned into an opera.

    > One of the main charges against Joan of Arc when she was sentenced to be burnt at the stake was using
    "Witch Herbs" to obtain "Visions from the Devil."

    > Such evidence as there is, therefore, suggests an "Astral" sabbat coexisting with whatever may have taken place on the physical plane.

    > Humanism & the growth of science & rationalism contributed to the decline of Magick in the 16th. century onwards, but paradoxically humanism is re-kindleing the belief in the power of humankind & our importance in the Cosmos.
    Magick is once again becoming fashionable and the culture of the Ancient world & the belief "All is One" is again venerated!
    As creative "psychonauts" re-discover the "magick" of the Shamanistic drug experience's, as well as some new ones!

    Some Sources; the Archaic Revival, the Age of Entheogens, Dogme et Ritual de la Haute Magie, Hallucinogens & Shamanism, History of Magic, the Morning of the Magicians, the Nature of Shamanism, Plants of the Gods, Phantastica; rare and important drug literature 1700 to the present, the Road to Eleusis, Where the Gods Reign, the Witch-Cult in Western Europe.
    :peace:

     
  2. zombiewolf

    zombiewolf Senior Member

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    Man seems to have always sought to alter consciousness, perception... perhaps as a way to deal with the conflict of the two minds, the duality of the ego and the spirit, the mind and body, heaven and earth... wishing they might be one again.
     
  3. lightningstrike

    lightningstrike Guest

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    Nicely put Zombiewolf, also an informative article there Doc but it does not go into much of the mystical practices that have sprung up more recently that do not need or make use of drugs to reach an altered state of consciousness. The ability to reach trance without, as well as with, psychoactive drugs is well documented. That said while I've suggested incenses and crystals to friends I've never suggested the use of drugs in reaching such a state due to the degradation factor. Eventually the drug becomes "the thing" and the state reached becomes a consequence.
     
  4. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    Of course...
     
  5. verminous_plague

    verminous_plague Banned

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    i believe in contacting another realm if that is to be called magic. i believe that other dimensions can be sort of hacked into and if you really know the art, occult magic, you can harness some of that power. kind of like a singer singing but it's really a spirit singing through the human physical body.

    i believe in that sort of. i mean throughout history you hear of people making deals with the "devil" to gain some sort of talent or gift that is temporary and then the spirit takes your soul or whatever. science proves there are parallel universes sitting on top of ours basically. anything is possible. just look at the nazis they were diehard occult magic believers and they practiced it frequently. hitler thought it helped him gain power in germany with all his black magic buddies. there's something going on in the world when a crazy man who came from nothing ascends to the throne of a great nation and he claims the occult gave it to him or helped him.

    but all leaders and rulers have a priest class behind the throne guiding them. there is a mysticism that has been believed in and practiced through out history, arcane, necromancy, whatever you want to call it. very powerful, intelligent men throughout history have been occult members. you can't deny that.
     
  6. Fairlight

    Fairlight Banned

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    Verminous Plague...Gone in a puff of smoke.
     
  7. foresting

    foresting Member

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    I believe in love.
     
  8. I'minmyunderwear

    I'minmyunderwear Newbie

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    Do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart
    How the music can free her, whenever it starts
    And it's magic, if the music is groovy
    It makes you feel happy like an old-time movie
    I'll tell you about the magic, and it'll free your soul
    But it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll
     
  9. verminous_plague

    verminous_plague Banned

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    I beg your pardon?
     
  10. LoneDeranger

    LoneDeranger Trying to pay attention.

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    I enjoyed your post, Doc. Thank you for it.
     
  11. AmyBeachGirl

    AmyBeachGirl Member

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    I definately believe in magic, I only have to snap my fingers and my guy's wand goes from soft to hard in an instant.
     
  12. SairaxxBolumite

    SairaxxBolumite Member

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    I believe in ritual drug use, the power of one's will, and chaos as well as basic logical reasoning and careful planning.
     
  13. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

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    Interesting read :)
     
  14. DocWho

    DocWho Member

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    :sunny: I've went back and read Joachin Wach's paradigm on the way religions are founded, along with some of Max Weber's writings, if you accept their weighty German words, then, none of the great founded religions, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Zoroasterism etc. began with a philiosphical framework or even a main idea.

    > They all began with an overwhelming New Experience, what Joachim Wach calls "the Experience of the Holy" & Max Weber, "Possession of the Deity," the sense of being a vessel of the divine, the All-one. Buddah, Mani, Zoroaster - at the very outset the leader did not offer his followers a better state in the hereafter or a improved social order or any other reward other than a certain "psychological state in the here and now,"
    as Weber put it.

    > They all went thru an Ecstasy, in short, an actual mental Experience!

    > In most cases according to scripture and legend, it happened in a Flash!
    Mohammed fasting and meditating on a mountainside near mecca and - Flash - Ecstasy, vast revelation and the beginning of Islam. Zoroaster hauling Haoma water along the road and - Flash - he runs into the flaming form of the Archangel Vohu Mano, messenger of Ahura Mazda, and the beginning of Zoroastrianism. Saul of Tarsas walking along the road to Damascus and - Flash - he hears the voice of the Lord and becomes a Christian.

    > Plus God knows how many lesser figures in the years since then, Christian Rosenkreuz & his "God-Illuminated" brotherhood of Rosicrucians, Emanuel Swedenborg whose mind suddenly "opened" in 1743, Meister Eckhart and his disciples Suso & Tauler,& in the 20th. Century Sadhu Sundar Singh - with - Flash! - a vision at the age of 16 and many times thereafter; "...often times when I come out of Ectasy I think the whole world must be blind not to see what I see, everything so near and clear... there is no language which will express the things which I see and hear in the Spirit world..." Sounds like an psychedelic trip

    > What they all saw in... a flash was the solution to the basic predicament of being human, the personal I, Me, trapped, mortal, helpless, in a vast impersonal It, the world around me. Suddenly! - All-in-one! - Flowing together, I into It, and It into Me, and in that flow I percieve a power, so near and so clear, that you wonder how others can be so blind to it.

    > All modern Religions, and the Occult mysteries, for that matter, talk about an Other World - whether Brahma's or Theosophists - that the rational work-a-day world is blind to, a Higher level of Reality & a perception of the Cosmic Unity of this Higher level.

    > the Historic Visions have been explained in many ways, as the result of epilepsy, self-hypnosis, changes in metabolism due to fasting, meditation, or actual intervention by "higher powers" ( gods?) - or Drugs!

    > In 1901 the Canadian Psychologist Richard Burke wrote of this Experience as "Cosmic Consciousness," Bucke belived that Human Beings, having attained self-consciousness some hundreds of thousands of years ago, are now at a point where our ability to process concepts is such that we are about to push thru to a new level, a Cosmic level.

    > the Book Cosmic Trigger by Robert Anton Wilson explores this concept Furthur...

    :devil: > { And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
    Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born? } William Butler Yeats. < :Angel_anim:

    :peace:
     
  15. Ol' Zeus

    Ol' Zeus Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I believe in the power of belief and focused intent.
     
  16. JPN2

    JPN2 Supporters HipForums Supporter

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  17. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    You dug up this old thread just to say "No"....
     
  18. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Yes.
     
  19. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    See how you are....
     
  20. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    there are several ways in which i do.

    the unknown imposes no limitations

    and the universal wonder of strangeness,

    is something we can all experience,

    whatever we believe or don't.

    whether or not psionics can escape the bell curved prison of probability,

    it is at least possible to move things around within it.

    so i question that belief, any belief, or the choice of one over another,

    plays any major role in it.

    but i do believe in those two things i mentioned first.

    i also believe there can independently and objectively exist, completely non-physical things.

    just that being completely non-physical, they can never be proven,

    or even with any certainty known.

    but magic at any rate, it is not my belief that it in any way, depends on them.

    magic isn't like technology though, where you can push a button, and expect nine times out of ten a predictable result, and in the case of failure, no result at all.

    more like one time in ten, that any attempt to use it, directly results in anything, other then maybe in your own mind.

    but those first to things, those my experience confirms rather then denies.
     

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