A Statement To Be Evaluated

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by osiris, May 8, 2004.

  1. know1nozme

    know1nozme High Plains Drifter

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    OOooh. :confused: Uumm... Did I write that? Time to get my meds checked. Sorry, I usually try to be more coherent than that. :eek:
     
  2. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

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    Dear Know1nozme,

    Pain of Prometheus.... There could not be a better example than this. We are all, like you, suffering from this. Chains and the vultures go away temporarily
    but the poison and the pain remains. But we never say die and live on.

    Thank you my dear beautiful soul. I always think of you as "Anandamayee". It pains to think that the modern-age confusion and curse has not spared anybody. If you consider all ages, you will understand that everybody had to go through this grind of pain and poison. I suppose, this is what is known as 'Divine Game'.

    The wise people have had been in the quest of a solution to this....to go above and beyond these sufferings. That is why the knowledge of body and soul has been so important. Once you know that you are not merely the body but the soul and that you would exist even after death....all the problems get over. You would still feel the pain and suffering of yourself and others but it would not disturb tranquility and serenity of your mind. Because you would for sure know and realize that all the pains and sufferings are to the bodies and not to the souls.

    The subject is such that one can go on and on but let me try and stop here.
    I understand that there are scopes of lots of debates on this but please we have talked enough, now let us sit, follow the wise advices of those who have /had attained that stage and try to find out the authenticity and the truth. We should talk only after that. After all, we should understand that so many from different parts of the world,over the ages, did not tell us lies.

    With lots of love and prayers............Kumar.
     
  3. osiris

    osiris Senior Member

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    lol.

    like existance itself, our words are hollow.

    despite the fact that you may think you have saved your self or anyone from suffering by being "tranquil", it is not those who stand around gabbing about religious wisdom that spare anyone a moment of suffering in the eternal grind of life and death, but those who ACT in the ultimate manifestation to effect a change, those who physically hold out a hand to help the fallen to their feet. i learned that yesterday. it is intangible deified energy forces and ideas that help people to ignore suffering. it is people that help other people to deal with it constructively, through action.

    though i am amused to find the waves had aligned and the resultant manifestation that ensued was an option to sit on my ass or get up and act. when will ya'll come out of your shells and take that final step, and shed the chains of prometheus?

    oh, but i see the fabric of cacoons stretching and breaking!

    IT'S ALIVE! HAHAHAHAHA!

    much love :)
     
  4. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

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    Dear Osiris,

    Thanks for your another complicated post.

    I at least provided you with something to lol about, but what are you doing?
    You talk about others' suffering, action and breaking Prometheus-chain but in practice you are being a sadist,adding to our suffering and beating about the bush.

    May I know what you are planning and what actions you are contemplating to alleviate the eternal grind of life,suffering and death ? Have you ever seen any true yogi/saint/sage, are you familiar with their daily routines, do you even know what they live for even after achieving salvation ?

    You talk about sitting and being gabby, it is not them but we...people like you and me. We do little but only talk, jump and behave like great soldiers and saviours. But alas! we forget that soldiers need shields and swords. Let us
    first of all learn to talk and write nicely, let us avoid impudence and be meek. That alone can lessen suffering of many to some extent. Then talk about your ideas, do not try to subdue and say you are right and others are wrong.

    I am sure, you are hurt. I am very sorry.

    With love....................Kumar.
     
  5. osiris

    osiris Senior Member

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    actually, the only reason i sit here and gab right now is because my baby sleeps. i am taking care of her, making sure when she wakes up ready to eat, she will be fed. thus, i have alleviated the possibility that she will starve and die. thus i have taken action to alleviate suffering. it is the little actions that take care of the big ones, on down the line. it is NO ACTION that cares for NOTHING. really, i think you make it more complicated and superficial in your attempt to simplify.

    no, i don't know any yogis. i do know and have seen some people do amazing things, via many different mystical and religious channels. but that you might think these parlor tricks alleviate suffering is an assumption.

    also, i may in some way be a sadist, when i say FUCK IDEOLOGY. Why? because i hurt people's feelings? maybe so, maybe so. but i make no apologies because, if people don't awaken from the shells of their emotional dreamworlds, or the empty spaces in which they reside to avoid those worlds, there is no hope that they will make this world, which does in some way physically exist and is to some extant real, a better place in which to live, for those of us who have to struggle day to day just to survive and don't have time to concentrate our minds on above mentioned parlor tricks.

    this coming from an individual that is stepping out from just such an empty space to find a world in ruin with a bunch of people sitting around smiling at their useless interior reflections, seeing himself in them, knowing the mistakes he's made, effecting a change. i give this for you, my sacrifice. i need not sheild or sword, for i am the shield and i take the blow from the sword with a smile on my face.

    like i said, i don't expect you or anyone to see it my way. indeed, as long as you do what you do, it will make it all the more necessary for me to do what i do. the balance is struck.

    polite words? i see a lot of people using polite words. i see the same people waiting for us to turn our backs in trust as they finger the blades in their pockets. again, i must insist that we ignore a lot of suffering under the pretense of absolving it.

    but here too i see we come from two very different cultural climates. i cannot know much of india. america.. could i convey the disgust with which i regard those who have usurped my home, a home that was indeed usurped by the culture in which i am rooted? capitalism has destroyed our sensibility, our sensitivity. sometimes i wonder if poverty has done the same for those in other parts of the world. its a constant fluctuation of extremes. what hangs in the balance is worth preserving, but maybe you can tell me, what that is?

    i see where you are coming from... i do not agree that it is the best way. but, then, if we all agreed, would we even exist?

    and all these words, do you take them just for their technical definitions. or do you feel something, this energy i pour into them, swelling from beneath?

    sometimes, i wonder, in wonder.

    much love, friend :)
     
  6. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

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    Dear Osiris,

    Thanks for your post.
    I can hear your untold story and can feel your pain.
    I am extremely sorry, I extend my sincere apology.

    I understand somewhere I made a big mistake about you.
    You have made me sad again by this post. I wish I could share your
    all your feelings truly.

    I take this time to convey my love and affection for your baby. I pray
    that your baby gets the dry honest ideologies from you and make you happy as she grows older.

    I appreciate your honesty that your mind and mouth speak the same thing.
    All I wanted to say was that all are not fake, all are not magicians or miracle performers. There are people, unfortunately we do not know many of them, who devote their whole lives and work quietly for the purpose without any publicity. Anyway, we will talk about it some other time. Suddenly I am feeling sick and highly embarrased.

    I do apologize again. I am sorry.

    With love.......Kumar.
     
  7. osiris

    osiris Senior Member

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    you need not apologize. i wouldn't put myself on the chopping block if i was afraid of pain, bro. i love you, my brother, and just don't want you to believe that suffering can just be made to go away.

    and those people who silently go about "the purpose"... their silence should by no means give you the idea that they do not suffer. indeed, but that they deal with their suffering, and turn that energy into something better. minus into plus, not the other way around. action is positive. thought is its negative component. thought into action, not action analyzed by thought, it seems to me is the purpose of divinity, and the constructions of ideologies do so much to subvert that, which is inherent, the automatic magic of life.

    hey, i'm new to this, ya know, this is a revelation for me.

    and i thank you for taking the time, and sharing it with me, putting your self in the line of fire, of debate.

    much love, many blessings, healing vibrations :)
     
  8. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

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    "you need not apologize. i wouldn't put myself on the chopping block if i was afraid of pain, bro. i love you, my brother, and just don't want you to believe that suffering can just be made to go away."



    Dear Osiris,
    Thank you.
    That is exactly what I wanted to hear from you. Just a very soft "I love you, my brother."

    If sufferings are part of life and can not be made to go away then your love can definitely cover up the ugly face of it. I am a fighter/soldier and that one simple but unfathomable line does wonders for me. That love is my shield and that love is my sword too. It does havoc. I am sure you understand that.

    Yesterday I was so upset and just try to feel me now. Your kind words of love have instantly rejuvenated me. I can again take on the whole world. So powerful is love! So powerful it is..........Let all feel it ,know it.

    With love..............Kumar.
     
  9. osiris

    osiris Senior Member

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    ha, i dig it, but love without action is naught but an empty ideal.

    got to actively take care of those you love...

    speaking of which, i smell poopy diapers. lol.

    much love :)
     
  10. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

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    Understand what you mean. Thanks.

    I love somebody but do not take care of him or her sounds to mean only one thing that that love is just a hollow word and just for the sake of saying.

    That is why we talk about true love and unconditional love which does not differentiate between my and mine & thy and thine.

    With love..................kumar.
     
  11. osiris

    osiris Senior Member

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    those who are unwilling to suffer will all to often take love for granted.

    much love :)
     
  12. know1nozme

    know1nozme High Plains Drifter

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    Such sacrifices as you make, osiris, are sacred, whether you choose to believe that or not. Your suffering endured for the actions you take is sacrifice of the ego for love. I am beginning to understand, I think, the nature of your problem with empiricism - sacrifice of the ego indicates a personal release of material life and an understanding and commitment to a "higher purpose." As Joseph Campbell said, "He who loses his life, gains it."

    I would praise this, but no doubt your response would be that you are only doing what you/everyone should be doing - why praise for doing what you are supposed to do? But I'll tell you: because few people actually do it. That's why it is so special. :D

    Namaste.
     
  13. osiris

    osiris Senior Member

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    dear friend, i wish no praise, and i do not of course feel that everyone should do it, as i have stated above. i am certain of the outcome of these thoughts and actions, and am ever so grateful that upon my dissolution i shall be capable of permeation.

    i owe you as much a thank you as you would owe me. but fuck the political pleasantries. all that goes without saying.

    this discussion has done something, something subtle but very powerful.

    do you feel it?

    much love :)
     
  14. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

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    Dear Know1nozme and Osiris,

    Thanks for bringing an enthralling end (?) to a wonderful thread.
    Both of you have been epitome of knowledge,mental strength and beauty.
    Osiris is tough enough but still dents could be made because she recognizes love, right and wrong.

    Osiris tells us about some subtle gains from this thread. Surely I do agree.
    Sacrifie and suffering are best described and understood by the people who have experienced it to a degree at personal level. I strongly feel Osiris is one of them.

    With love.........Kumar.
     
  15. osiris

    osiris Senior Member

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    lol. i am male, for the sake of reference. it's cool, though, the heart is androgynous.

    much love :)
     
  16. know1nozme

    know1nozme High Plains Drifter

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    Thanks Kumar. Thanks to you also Osiris.

    This was a great discussion, though it seems clear that we have come as far with it as we can. How often does a thread such as this end on such a peaceful and agreeable note. It has been great, I'm certain we will find much more to discuss in the future and I am looking forward to it. :)

    Blessed be
    Love
    Namaste
     
  17. osiris

    osiris Senior Member

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    now that i think of it, very rare indeed.

    my gratitude to you both as well, as well as the others that have posted in this thread, no matter the perceived length or depth of their contribution. who can say any small piece is irrelevant?

    much love :)
     
  18. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

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    Dear Osiris,

    Thanks. You have really been an enigma. However, it is nice to know about you now. I shall feel at ease and take more liberty while corresponding with you.

    With love..........Kumar.
     
  19. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

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    Dear Know1nozme,

    Thanks. You will always touch my heart.
    You are someone outstanding in the Hipforums. I shall always be in touch with you.

    With love..........Kumar.
     

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