Vegetarians - would you eat meat if it did not entail killing?

Now this, I only agree with because of the chemicals that we choose.

However, the later comment about cyborgs excites me. I want artificial intelligence enhancements :daisy:

 

I don't believe that LSD-25 is one of the alkaloids obtained from ergot. Lysergic acid derivatives yes, but not LSD. Of course if you can show me otherwise I will be grateful.

 

It's only a misnomer if you totally neglect the way we use it. Saying lab-manufactured meat is unnatural is NOT saying it is "outside the laws of nature". You're right that all processes are natural. But the word unnatural makes sense when you use it in a specific biological or botanical context.

If I handed you a drawing of a unicorn, wouldn't you describe it as unnatural? After all, it's outside the laws of nature.

 

No, I wouldn't because it's of our natural imagination (and hell, it's just a combination of multiple animals)

"Unnatural" is just a faulty way of calling things bad. It serves no real purpose. Things can be man-made, which is the purpose of the word synthetic -- but that doesn't make them unnatural -- it just means there were human steps in their creation.

 

I think you're just overthinking this.

 

I wouldn't, no. I might eat meat if it entailed me killing something, though.. Like if I had a farm and that. I might eat a cow or something that I've known.

Anything else, no. Ew. What would stop them from growing human meat in the labs? I've heard human meat is really tasty. :ack2:

 

Vegetarians do kill to eat, just because what they eat doesn't have a face don't over look that fact.

 

I don't. Many of them feel that killing an animal is worse than killing a plant.

 

Off course it is , it basically comes down what is your definition of life , plant live but do they have consiousness ,i believe that animals do but plants do not .I define life by the fact that any living think that has emotions that we i can understand , that feel pain in the same way we do , that can use its intelligance to survive is living the same way we are and therefore should not be killed to provide me with food .

To the best of my knowledge plants dont have nor do they show any of the signs that i mentioned above therefore ethically for me it is ok to eat them .

 

Do you know why so many people go fishing?


Fish don't scream.

 

But the process of killing animals for food is not painful for them, and they use intelligence to survive in the livestock farm - unless you're talking about caged chickens for eggs (which I am strongly against). These animals are looked after well and given veterinarian aid their whole life. Why should those aspects of life you mentioned matter to meat manufacture when they're not affected by it compared with life outside the farm?

 

Ive worked on several industrial and organic farms and seen many many farms myself and the suffering of animals in industrial farming is huge.
You must be really blind if you walk through an industrial farm and dont see the suffering there.
Industrial farming is hell on earth for the animals and gives them noway near what they need.
By far most industrial animals are mentally and physically sick.

Have you ever worked in a slaughterhouse?
Do you think animals dont understand very well whats happening to them?
They are scared to death.

 

I'd say that if a pig understands what is happening to it, a plant does too. Just because we can't sympathise with the pain felt by a tree when it is cut down, it is somehow less valuable than a chicken.

You know your own body kills millions of creatures with nervous systems every day. Your body kills parasites, white blood cells target invaders and destroy them. You're constantly stepping on ants, bugs or flies. You can't prevent it.

 

Thing is you can eat plants all your life without killing a single plant because you only take part of the plant so it can regrow. Its like cutting hair.

When I go harvest medical herbes, I never kill the entire plant but I take a part of it.

With animals you cant do that unless you want to do a lizard tail diet lol

Or drink some of their blood but leave them alive.

 

I quit eating meat when someone asked me if I would eat it if I was the one who had to kill the animal. I was honest and told him no. Then he asked me if I was comfortable hiring someone else to do the killing. He had me there . . .

Go ahead and pick an apple from a tree and eat it. Then go kill a pig and eat it. This is a good way for anyone to find out how they really feel about eating meat.

If you find no difference, then go ahead; more power to ya.

 

But you can prevent killing an animal that you will eat... I don't see your point.

And you're really comparing the understanding of a pig to that of a tree??

 

Your thread title suggest different, but i see your point.

I do know it's convenient to dismiss any sign of plant suffering because they do not show emotion or signs of harm like we do. Which reminds me that slavery and genocide have been justified by the assertion that some kinds of people do not feel pain, do not feel love — are not truly human — in the same way as others.

Unlike a lowing, running cow, a plant’s reactions to attack are much harder for us to detect. But just like a chicken running around with it's head cut off, the body of a corn plant torn from the soil or sliced into pieces struggles to save itself, just as vigorously and just as uselessly, if much less obviously to the human ear and eye.

When a plant is wounded, its body immediately kicks into protection mode. It releases a bouquet of volatile chemicals, which in some cases have been shown to induce neighboring plants to pre-emptively step up their own chemical defenses and in other cases to lure in predators of the beasts that may be causing the damage to the plants.

Plants don’t just react to attacks, though. They stand forever at the ready. Witness the endless thorns, stinging hairs and deadly poisons with which they are armed. If all this effort doesn’t look like an organism trying to survive, then I’m not sure what would.

From my read of plants they show pain not like we do of course but suffering nonetheless.If you think about it, though, why would we expect any organism to lie down and die for our dinner? Organisms have evolved to do everything in their power to avoid being extinguished. How long would any lineage be likely to last if its members effectively didn’t care if you killed them?

http://en
wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_perception_(paranormal)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_perception_(physiology)

 

Perhaps it has to do with the way the plant is killed, and the purpose. If you believe that plants are conscious, then you must also believe that they have a purpose and way of being fulfilled. How do you suppose that fulfillment is attained?

If you think it's immoral to kill a plant, how do you propose we stay alive?

 

GM vegetables and fruit haven't been shown to produce a higher yield at all. There aren't really any benefits to GM veggies as far as yield or space, AND there is the potential there that it harms the human body. No one really knows because only one study has been conducted and the scientist that headed it was forced into early retirement after he found that it significantly alters the size of organs in lab rats.

I don't know why lab meat would be different.

 

I was speaking more in terms of the potential of the science.
But knowing a hydroponic grower, that has used various forms of supplements -- chemical packages can really affect the yield -- and I don't see how genetics could be anything but more effective as experience builds.
I don't see how GM veggies could really have spatial benefits, unless somehow the rooting was altered -- but an animal, especially anywhere near ethically raised - takes up a humongous amount of space (I've heard an acre per cow!). It's hard to believe that a GM meat factory couldn't improve on this.