Do you think it's right to complain if you didn't vote?

If I was in the US, then yes. I just think with your two party system you've got no choices, so complain all you want. (It wont change much though)

 

Voting does more to undermine freedom thanit does to create it. Voting merely gives the appearance of choice. As Emma Goldman said “If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.” Elections wire-pulling, intriguing, flattering, lying, cheating; in fact, chicanery of every description, whereby the political aspirant can achieve success. Adding to the complete demoralization of character and conviction, until nothing is left that would make one hope for anything from such a human derelict (Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan). Time and time again people are foolish enough to trust, believe, and support "their" last farthing aspiring politicians, only to find themselves betrayed and cheated.
Obama [A Wholly Owned Subsidiary Of Goldman Sachs] accelerated the policies of the Bush Administration, sent 30,000 more troops into Afghanistan and and rapidly expanded the Bush-era bombing raids on Pakistan. Built secret drone bases in the Horn of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula as part of a newly aggressive campaign of violence. Clinton won calling for change from Reagan-Bush’s 12 years of trickle-down economics. Instead, he pushed for passage of NAFTA, the biggest destroyer of US manufacturing sector. What used to be an $18 per hour manufacturing job in America became a $3 per hour job in Mexico. Obama just signed new trade deals with South Korea who's firms use North Korean slave labour. At a lose of approximately 170,000 US jobs and gives the North Korean government a $9.6b American taxpayer subsidy it can use to build nukes. US sanctions against North Korea? Sorry language in KORUS creates an exception. Clinton adopted most of the GOP program, including slashed billions from important programs like Medicare and Medicaid.
Money can't buy love, but it can buy everything else, including a victory at in the Federal Auction. Those with the most money get the "position" 94% of the time. Citizen United destroyed the already substandard 'election" laws, bribes can flow anonymously and without limit. Five billionaires are going to be spending more then a half billionaire dollars on a nice selection of "policy makers", yes 5 people paying more then $500,000,000,000, so much for your 1 man 1 vote. I can go on and on, but I think my point is made. Anyone who believes their "vote' has any meaning is dangerously naive, a system of control /of the "job creators" by the "job creators" for the "job creators"./ You own nothing, you get no say in anything. Don't vote, Occupy the Earth!

PS- "Job Creators" is now a euphemism for ultra rich. "Policy makers" are their employees with titles like Senator, President, Secretary of the Treasury, Governor, etc. In case your a little dull.

 

not taking part and still complaining is wrong

you can't care that badly.

we all know positive change is a group effort.

 

That is a Wikipedia quote, I am not going to waste my time finding something serious. So technically, you do have the right to complain even if you don't vote.

It's just that if you do, everyone is going to dislike you and think you're an idiot, with cause.

Do people really sit around and complain about the government? I'm glad I'm not that old yet.
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Fuckinay. I complain about those fucks every chance I get and everywhere I am. When I start getting complaints about what I say--and I haven't--then the complainer is due an education.

To add=I was excited to vote for JFK and then the conservatives killed him. That's when they lost me and I haven't voted since. RFK and MLK's murders sealed the deal forever with me. I'm not conservative,I don't like conservative thoughts and actions and that's the way it is. Fuck 'em.

 

Well Scratcho, according to this claim you are at least 68 years old. I understand when I reach 75 or so and am able to do nothing but sit around and collect Social Security I might complain about the governement too. What right do they have to pay me to live!

Kinda funny, when the Pharisees asked Jesus whether it was right to pay taxes, Jesus' reply was "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." Now we complain when the governemnt takes "our" money, which they printed so technically it is belongs to the elected officials of the government and we got it due to a system of trade which the government set up and maintains. And we complain about it.

 

Interesting why are you referring to the Bill of Rights as though it is relevant? It's influenced by the Code Napoleon principles of dignity, liberty, equality and brotherhood. It also says all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him not everyone except those who your rulers deem to be unlawful combatant and therefore granted no protection under the law and can be held indefinitely and tortured. It states "no one shall be subjected to torture". A now proud American custom. All are equal before the law not a few non-binding suggestions for "job creators" and strict "rules" the rest of us must follow on threat of violence and imprisonment. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home... I guess that does not include phone tapping, computer hacking, smoking a bowl. Try going to Wall Street to exercise your rights of speech and assembly, see how long before you are beaten with clubs by those who should be protecting you. The Orwellian named Patriot Act makes search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause acceptable, may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity, may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone the government asked them for information. Don't worry if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide. After all it is done to protect you from "terrorists" who hate your "freedom". Or perhaps to keep the real 'terrorists" safe from you. Terrorism are acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes. Are we all done fearing communism, drugs, anthrax is the mail, black men, killer bees, WMD, Muslims, animals gone wild? All propaganda to keep you in fear along with the advertising industry which provide commercial forms of propaganda. Their success flows from their ability to keep people self-indulgent, to keep people consuming, to keep them on the debt treadmill, and to keep them complacent, self-absorbed, and hedonistic.
I am not sure you can be too young too 'complain" but you can be too indoctrinated to not "complain".

 

The way I see it, you can complain about it or actually do something about it. For instance, a few years ago my wife and I started researching refined white sugar and found out how bad it was. We didn't go around complaining about it, we simply stopped using it. The same process goes for our government. If the people who don't like it here would simply move someplace else where things are better, the problem would soon be solved. The positive thinkers that are left here would be free to solve problems instead of complaints, and the people who don't like it here would be someplace better.

 

I don't mean this as a criticism, but don't wait for someone else to step up and fix things for us, we all must say "enough, we will no long tolerate this behavior". We all must work for change. They can't kill all of us, we have them outnumbered.

Shout Out to-
Wells Fargo’s quarterly profit surged 21% to a record $4.1bn this Quarter and to celebrate a congratulatory increase in debit-card fees! Their goal is to “set a fair price”. Their words not mine.

 

Where are things better? Isn't the US the land of opportunity? The only other country with less upward mobility is the UK. You do have a much better shot at a decent life and upward mobility in France and Sweden, two more socialistic countries. Unchecked unregulated capitalism leads to a few have and a large majority of have nots. How would you suppose american children who go to bed hungry (1 in 6 american children), up and move to "somewhere else"? People who's only "income" is food stamps, should leave their shack and somehow find the wealth to move far away, because the "job creators" need all the wealth here? The large majority is just struggling to get by. May be the "job creators" need to move somewhere else, or perhaps just go back to kindergarten.

 

THINGS are better when they are worse for the SELF-interested human being living off the LAMB. Long live the new King. Now I think it's right to complain.

 

I'm fuckin'72 and I still do roofing so I can keep busy,so don't worry yourself about me. You take care of your biz and i'll take care of mine. And i have roots here from way-way back,so I won't be leaving. But I will be bitching about whatever I feel needs bitching about. I started working at 14,so I WILL collect SS.

 

That is the attitude that got us into this situation to begin with. While I am taking care of mine and you yours, a small group of self-appointed, psychopathic Masters of the Universe enslave both of us and live off our labour. You are "entitled" to SS, you paid for it. Don't you love how quickly the "policy maker" Obama defended using an enormous amount of taxpayer money to pay bonuses to those who brought the world economy to the brink of collapse and cost millions of innocent Americans their jobs and/or houses, as "very savvy businessmen”. Rather then criminals, thieves that they are. “I, like most of the American people, don’t begrudge people success or wealth. That is part of the free-market system” Obama an employee of Goldman Sachs said knowing the free market does not exist, it is a lie. It is defined as a market in which the government does NOT intervene. He actually used the free market myth to defend the bailouts, blatantly more absurd then the "they hate our freedom" lie, it takes into account no one will Google the word free-market to find out what it is. Tax subsides, tax incentives, government bail-outs, do not happen in a free market, it is in direct violation of the very idea.
Then to help pay for their fraud have no problem stealing from SS that people depend on to live AND deserve having paid into their entire working lives. The social contract. It is not an entitlement to expect something you paid for.

 

You've just got no say in the matter. Shut up and register next time.

 

And save up your pennies, The Koch Brothers are spending $240,000,000 at the minimum to buy their "policy makers". How much are you spending to buy yours?

 

Someone is f'in lying or in the dark here. I'm 73 and have been collecting SS for 8 years; the year I started, 2003, I had turned 65. Check out your benefits, dude. :mickey:

 

I started mine at 63. So what's the lie you refer to.

 

If someone is so poor they don't have the option to move and lives in the USA, I would guess the USA is footing the entire bill for their food, water, and shelter. So why would they bite the hand that is feeding them? Even most dogs know better than that.

I had a cousin who got laid off and started drawing unemployment. For almost 2 years, he "couldn't find a job." About 2 months before the last extension on his unemployment ran out, lo and behold he found a job. He likes his job now and is thinking of working until he's 65 instead of retiring at 62. Funny, if you are willing to work, there are jobs to be had. Not willing to work = no job.

If this is such a piss poor place to live, how come all those dirt poor Mexicans only dream of moving to the US, and hundreds of thousands of them do in spite of the fact they don't have a pot to piss in?

It sounds to me like you think the US should be some sort of idealistic utopia, which it never will be as long as people live here.

 

Well what are the arguments politicians always say about why they go into politics...to make the country a better, fairer place, well the left always say fairer so they can't just turn round and say if you don't vote for us then why should we care about what you think? They've got to do the best job they can no matter what and if someone doesn't think they're doing that then they've got a right to say so.