Processed food.

Discussion in 'Conspiracy' started by mmj10, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    Bovine growth hormones have been directly linked to cancer. There is a wealth of research out there on it, all it takes is a quick google search to find credible material.

    As for GM food, there IS evidence out there that it is unsafe. once again, just a quick google search.

    Trials on GM food have been shown to cause tumor growth in rats.

    A cauliflower mosaic virus that is used to drive implanted genes in GM food has been shown to be infectious to the human body and causes malignant polyps in the stomach and colon.

    GM food has been shown to contain antibiotic resistant marker genes...I actually just read that. that scares the crap out of me.

    In a famous Russian study on GM potatoes and rats, the rats fed GM potatoes developed smaller livers, hearts, testicles, brains, and other major organs. Your GM baked potato is making your balls small :)

    and on and on..i haven't provided any links because I don't think its necessary, you can easily verify what I just said. That information all comes from published studies done on GM food.

    Even if none of this were true, just the fact of Monsanto's business practices should be enough to keep anyone who has any knowledge of them from supporting their business. Broony wasn't kidding when he said they were evil. They've modified their seeds to the point where the plants from the seeds do not produce seeds for the next year, thus making farmers who use their seeds entirely dependent on them. I think thats obviously designed to take away self-sufficiency from large populations.

    Farmers who use their seeds are required to pay them a patent fee for use of the seeds, but the problem with that is they have not yet prevented those seeds from cross-pollinating with nearby crops that do not use GM seeds. Do you know what Monsanto does when this cross-pollination occurs? They sue the farmers whose crops were unknowingly pollinated. They've successfully sued farmers all over Canada and America. This is when it comes in handy to have former Monsanto employees installed on judiciary branches. They've completely ruined small farms by doing this. One Canadian farmer is serving 8 years in prison because his crops were unknowingly cross-pollinated and instead of suing him, which is already fucked up as it is, they pressed criminal charges against him. They ruined an honest man's life. Does that not make anyone else feel absolutely outraged?
     
  2. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    I've read as much as I can on the e.gs you raise.
    A few I have heard before.
    I can verify what you have said have been linked together but I feel your conclusions are rather off.
    Anybody can do some research and make up their own mind, though.

    If farmers want to be self sufficient they can be.
    If they decide they want to make more money and use Monsanto seeds, then, yes, it's a little more difficult.
    Monsanto sell to 275,000 American farms a year (according to their website).
    I think there are over 2,204,792 farms in the USA alone.

    http://solveclimatenews.com/news/20090217/usda-census-part-i-small-farms-rise-america

    They say: Since 1997, we have only filed suit against farmers 144 times in the United States. This may sound like a lot, but when you consider that we sell seed to more than 275,000 American farmers a year, it’s really a small number. Of these, we’ve proceeded through trial with only nine farmers. All nine cases were found in Monsanto’s favor.
    http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/saved-seed-farmer-lawsuits.aspx

    I'm not sure about worldwide.

    How does it help?

    I hadn't heard about that and can't find any information on it.
     
  3. lilHippieChick

    lilHippieChick Member

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    How good is the food at whole foods?
     
  4. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot truth

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    I trust their claims that their meats/dairy are antibiotic and growth hormone free are true. Beyond that I recommend becoming an ingredients list reader and learning the art of cooking, Like any other company, WF exists for one purpose only, to make money.
     
  5. wa bluska wica

    wa bluska wica Pedestrian

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    damn, they must've been feeding me that shit since birth

    :sunny:
     
  6. wa bluska wica

    wa bluska wica Pedestrian

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  7. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    It was meant to add perspective. :)
     
  8. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    Why do you feel my conclusions are off?



    I've read that something like 90% of all seeds used in the US are GM Monsanto seeds. I could be wrong, i'll have to look that up again.

    Either way, farmers that do not use Monsanto seeds could unknowingly have their crops cross-pollinated by Monsanto seeds from neighboring farms, in which case they are either forced to pay Monsanto a fee or lose their crops that year.


    those numbers don't mean a lot to me. The fact that there is a legal precedent to sue and win against farmers who crops were unknowingly cross-pollinated troubles me, whether its one farmer or a thousand.


    it ensures that there are judges installed who will rule in their favor. it represents a conflict of interest.



    I read that a few months ago, I can't find the original source but I will try to find it.
     
  9. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    I presumed you were saying GM milk was causing cancer, not that it MIGHT have caused an increase in a type of cancer (if left un-checked).
    If I was wrong in my presumption, sorry.

    The 35S cauliflower mosaic virus (CaMV) promoter MIGHT cause infections to the human body and cause malignant polyps in the stomach and colon. You said it DOES.

    You said: "Your GM baked potato is making your balls small".
    Not that one variant of GM potatoe MIGHT cause x, y and z.
    If you were a doctor and said: "All GM potatoes caused x, y and z"...
    I would want you struck off for professional incompetence.

    You said there IS evidence out there that it (GM) is unsafe.
    Not there was ALSO evidence GM is safe.
    The consensus is GM is safe not that it isn't.

    I'm sure you will know that a lot of food has been proven to cause one thing or another.
    Most studies will show GM MIGHT increase the risk, not that it actually causes a novel disease.

    It was also the tone of your conclusions I found off.

    It was also the conclusion that because there were studies into certain issues the conclusion was that it was always a negative conclusion.
    And therefore we should stop producing GM.
    I think there are studies to show GM is no different in the effect it has on the human body/environment.
    If it is negative it means non GM crops of the same type are negative too.
    Removing GM might reduce the propensity it doesn't remove the risk.

    Basically, your conclusions seemed to be that GM always caused a negative reaction to the human body/environment so must be removed from the market.
    If GM was shown to always cause negative effect on the body/environment, I would be the first to say remove it from the market.

    My conclusion is that GM is not introducing any new negative effects to the human body/environment, and the risk is out-weighted in favour of the gain.

    I've read that too. I've also read 75%.
    Both from the same source (at different times).
    My point was that farmers have chosen to use those seeds.

    Why would it trouble you?
    There is a minuscule amount of people with ties to both government and Monsanto.
    I don't know that in all cases where Monsanto has won, the judge had ties to Monsanto.
    Monsanto will always say and you will always say in every instance GM wins and never loses.

    Thanks.
     
  10. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    So are we talking about GM crops being evil or microwaves being evil?(hint, neither are really evil, though the economics involved with GM crops from big corporations is a different story)
     
  11. broony

    broony Banned

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    The thread has gone to GMO's.

    They are both horrible for you though...

    Ever heated a cup of water in the microwave, took it out, then added coffee?
     
  12. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    Ever boil water boiled on the stove and add coffee? Coffee is supposed to slow brewed/perked, which is why those instant coffee bags that are like tea bags always taste worse than a normal pot of fresh brewed coffee. Anytime you make food cook faster than prescribed makes it taste worse, microwaves included. Cooking is a science, we've been doing it as a species for tens of thousands of years, we have it down pretty well, it's why when you cook in the oven at a temp higher than recommended you'll get your food quicker but it will lose a lot of its taste. Microwaves make chemical reactions that break down water and cause heat to happen extremely quick, you're going to lose taste. Fun fact though, most people never change the power setting on their microwave and keep it at 100%, you can lower it, cook food for longer in it, and have it come out tasting better than it normally would.

    Bad tasting =/= bad for you

    The only reason people ever think microwaves are bad is because they hear the word radiation and go OMG. Radiation is not inherently bad, especially(and I really mean especially) when it's non ionizing radiation. It's the same as the nuclear power debate when people hear nuclear they think OMG ATOMS and think of Chernobyl, despite the fact by the laws of physics Chernobyl can't happen in any nuclear power plant ever built in a western nation.
     
  13. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    I think the phrasing I used was "bovine growth hormones have been linked with cancer."

    I said that studies have shown an increase in stomach and colon cancer in GM food containing the cauliflower mosiac virus.



    I said that lab studies have shown a significant decrease in the size of major organs in rats that were fed GM potatoes versus rats that were not.

    whose concensus exactly?

    I did indeed say there is evidence that GM food is unsafe. There is conclusive evidence that GM food may increase the risk in cancer and decrease the size of major organs.

    If a study says, X + Y shows an increase in Z, what other conclusions could you possibly draw? What is the point in any lab studies regarding cancer and variables that could possibly increase the risk if no conclusions regarding the safety of the variables can be drawn from the end result?

    I think your argument is similiar to studies done on the effects of smoking. Smoking has been shown to increase the risk of lung cancer. However, nonsmokers also run a risk of developing lung cancer. Do you conclude that smoking cigarettes is therefore safe?


    my conclusion is actually that because GM food has been shown to cause negative reactions in a lab setting, I personally choose to keep GM food out of my diet.

    I am sure that there are studies that have shown GM food to be safe. I am sure that studies done on smoking have shown no ill effects from smoking. There have been studies that have shown GM food to be unsafe. There are studies that have shown smoking to be unsafe.

    In regards to my body, I prefer to pay attention to the studies that show it to be unsafe.

    I do not think GM food should be removed from the market, simply because our economic system is set up in a way that allows consumers to have a choice.

    One problem (in addition to many others) that I have with Monsanto is they are trying to remove that choice. Monsanto is currently involved in a lawsuit against Oakhurst Dairy farms because Oakhurst labels their milk as not using bovine growth hormones. Monsanto claims this hurts their business because it suggests that there is something wrong with bovine growth hormones and takes away business in the form of consumers who would prefer not to drink milk that used growth hormones.

    As a consumer, I would much rather buy milk that came from cows that were not pumped full of growth hormones. However, if Monsanto wins this lawsuit no one will be allowed to label their products in a way that shows they did not employ the use of growth hormones, therefore taking the choice away from me, the consumer, to drink the type of milk that I want to drink.


    my conclusion is the gain does nothing to benefit the consumer and only benefits the corporation producing GM food.


    ...because there is a legal precedent that allows farmers to lose an entire year's crop and profit due to cross-pollination? That is a legal precedent that could potentially ruin small farmers.

    I personally care more about the success of small farmers than huge corporations.

    the potential is still there. I find it troubling. You do not. We can agree to disagree, but if you one day have a daughter that hits puberty at age 8 from eating eerily large breasts of chicken pumped full of hormones, you can't say you weren't warned :p
     
  14. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    You said "Directly linked".
    I did say I presumed you were saying...
    Sometimes you are subtle other times you are not.
    And: GM food has been shown to be infectious to the human body and causes malignant polyps in the stomach and colon.

    I presume your later comment was a litttle bit of a joke.
    I do think you would think any and all GM potatoes (granted there aren't many) may cause the same issues.
    So, perhaps a joke, but tinged with how you feel?

    I know it's difficult because most responsible scientists will use words like "might" "could" "If eaten raw" etc etc.
    Then we tend to read the spin rather than the research (correct me if I am wrong)...and the cautious words are removed and certainty is replaced.

    Me and my mate :p

    Another person put it more succinctly than I could:

    In a very few types of cancer, certain foods are regarded as risk factors, but a risk factor is very different from a cause. Some evidence suggests, for example, that a diet high in dairy may be a risk factor for prostate cancer. It isn't a cause - in the same way as insurance companies have found that 'being male' is a risk factor for having a car crash, but being male doesn't cause car crashes.

    That's basically my point about GM food.

    How many reports do you hear about food (not just GM) where they suggest or imply or even directly link a food with the cause of a disease and not that it MIGHT be a risk factor?
    Basically, it seems, you are saying if I eat GM food I will inevitably become sick. If I am wrong in my presumption, sorry.
    Bleh, it's just the way you phrase things sometimes.
    I also think it is unfair to suggest ALL GM food is a risk factor, may increase, or causes...

    Nonsmokers are susceptible to passive smoking.
    It is inevitable smoking will eventually cause a disease.
    The only factor is time.

    GM food MAY increase the risk of x, y and z...it isn't inevitable and not all GM food has been linked to any risk of x, y and z.
    I concede some GM food I wouldn't touch if it is still on sale.
    Milk, for sure. Even Monsanto moved away from that one. :p

    Fair enough.

    Not any more. It was over several years ago.

    http://www.oakhurstdairy.com/about/farmers-pledge.php
    Monsanto obviously lost.
    Monsanto would still have had to take every other producer (who wanted to put a similar label on their milk) to court.

    You will be pleased to know there is an increase in small farms, and most farms in the US are family run.
    I hear what you are saying, though.
    I'd seriously have some sort of agreement with my neighbour if they were using GM crops.
    I'll have to check if the farmer considerably loses out and has the potential to ruin the farm.
    I don't know if insurance would cover it.
    I won't make any claims till I know more.
     
  15. SunnyHappyVegan

    SunnyHappyVegan Member

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    Say NO to GMO!
     
  16. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    Genetically modified food is the wave of the future. In fact it'll probably be the second green revolution.
     
  17. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    I understand what you're saying, odon. I suppose my wording was a bit irresponsible. I should have said studies have shown GM food could increase the risk of certain cancers and diseases and just left it at that.

    Its hard to step back and view this subject from an unbiased point of view because its something I feel passionate about so my wording can come on a little strong on the subject. I've been trying to cut out all chemicals and processed and genetically modified foods in the past year. It is my personal belief that the chemicals and detergents in various personal hygeine products (body wash, shampoo) cannot possibly be good for your body. I feel the same about processed and GM food, and I am sure there are studies out there showing GM food to be safe but from a personal standpoint, I think it is much better for the body to keep it as natural as possible. It is nearly impossible to tell the long-term consequences of using GM food and unnatural products or exactly how much they contribute to cancer rates, but I feel a lot better personally to use tried-and-true all natural products and foods that have been proven throughout human history to benefit humans in a healthy way.

    As far as Monsanto, I do think they are an evil corporation that doesn't give a shit about anything but profit and are willing to violate both environmental law and human rights in order to make a profit.Therefore I prefer to stay away from any products they make.

    I must have read an outdated website referring to the lawsuit with Oakhurst Dairy because the website I read said they were going to trial in January, but it did not specify a year, so I assumed it was 2011. the internet can be so misleading, i'll have to double and triple check my sources anytime I get into a debate with you :)
     
  18. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    Hi, Meliai.

    Kudos for your honesty.
    I appreciate your passion for this issue, I really do.
    I wish there were more people like you.
    I might not appreciate your wording sometimes, but I'd never wish to restrict the way you articulate yourself...I'll just have to live with that.

    Good for you.
    I too try and not put any and everything into my system.
    Some things due to information I am aware of and others due to intangible reasons.
    Sometimes you don't really need documented evidence.
    I get it. I honestly do. I totally respect you for that.

    Fair enough. If they can't convince you they are not the devil incarnate, I never will.

    The story has been repeated over the years.
    The website you read probably posted the story recently.
    Not many that have posted the story have also posted the outcome.
    So it becomes a never ending conflict against a small entity and a large entity.
    The cynic in me thinks some do not wish to admit the large entity lost in the end.

    :p OK.
    To be honest, checking helps understand all points of view and removes a few misleading points, imho.
    But I also get it wrong too, so no worries.
     
  19. lillallyloukins

    lillallyloukins ⓑⓐⓡⓑⓐⓡⓘⓐⓝ

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    fact is, we don't know if it is safe yet, as not enough time has passed...
     
  20. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    20 years of people eating GM crops has yet to produce any evidence it isn't safe, nor have the studies and test conducted on the subject. People here genetically modified and think gigantic radioactive tomatoes. GM crops are mostly altered to make them more resistant to disease or pests. There's no reason to just assume GM food is unsafe. Pesticides are probably more harmful to food than modified crops are.

    You can go back in time when people thought trying to crossbreed various fruits and veggies to make better and more economical hybrids would create unsafe food.
     

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