Your vision of a Utopian civilization

Discussion in 'The Future' started by idioticnumbskull, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    We go round in a circle and suppose, shooting our mouth off the entire time, while the secret sits in the middle and knows.
     
  2. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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  3. Toasted Oats

    Toasted Oats Members

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    Good grief!! You caught my eye!!

    I've been snagged...
     
  4. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    Some people are easy to please.
     
  5. NoHobo

    NoHobo Members

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    World peace, lack of hunger, space travel, global currency, no Muslims.

    You know... the usual.
     
  6. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    civilization, which is the prevention of the dominance of aggressiveness

    freedom to build and create imaginatively without having to indenture yourself to anything
    a small enough population in relation to environment for this to be possible without causing degradation to it

    food and shelter never having to be worried about
    and infrastructure reliable, free and universally usefull and accessable to all.

    architecture without rectangles.
    more forest then garden, more garden then house.

    no one being intentionally inconsiderate for any reason,
    that's the big one, the difference between utopia and tyranny,
    regardless of religious, ideological or other beliefs or inclinations of any kind.

    nameless gods who have no wish to be worshiped, but love seeing people build wild crazy temples, to play quietly and explore their convoluted architecture in.

    all living things having the same rights to exist and make use of the landscape.
     
    Driftrue likes this.
  7. PhoeNicks

    PhoeNicks Members

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    ... ...

    Utopia

    According to Merriam Webster.

    Often capitalized : a place of ideal PERFECTION especially in laws, government, and social conditions.

    ... ... ...

    Since no human being is perfect, a perfect society cannot be built by humans.

    Fortunately, a day will come when our Creator will establish his kingdom on Earth and that will indeed fulfill the “perfection” as defined in the word Utopia.
     
  8. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    since no human is capable of purrfection, no book about purrfect creators, has the slightest idea what it is talking about, as they were all written by humans.

    now back to the subject.

    widely scattered tiny villages of resident built tiny houses, linked by minimal form factor narrow gauge railways, propelled by stored energy generated by sun, wind and falling water.
    and no one hating logic, consideration, honesty, nor imagination. nor telling each other what to pretend, nor harassing anyone for not pretending the same things as themselves.
     
  9. tumbling.dice

    tumbling.dice Visitor

    A place to stay
    Enough to eat
    Somewhere old heroes shuffle safely down the street
    Where you can speak out loud
    About your doubts and fears
    And what's more no-one ever disappears
    You never hear their standard issue kicking in your door
    You can relax on both sides of the tracks
    And maniacs don't blow holes in bandsmen by remote control
    And everyone has recourse to the law
    And no-one kills the children anymore
     
  10. PhoeNicks

    PhoeNicks Members

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    ... ... ...

    When a blade of grass is born, its destiny is to become food.

    When a tree is born, its destiny is to bear fruit, and to become a home to animals.

    When a creature of the air is born, if it does not fly when its thrown it perishes.

    When a creature of the sea is born if it does not swim it perishes.

    When lions and wolves of their pride and their pack, do not conform, they are shunned.

    If the tides would not ebb and flow, nor the sun not rise and fall, nor the moon not wax and wane, nor every single star, in every constellation, in the cosmos move in an elegant delicate balance,

    We would not be here.

    Yet, contemplating all creation, and all things natural we most certainly don’t belong in it either. For is hatred, irrationality, dishonesty, and greed not to be human?

    Book? As in “THE” Book?

    Many can read the words. But very few see the true elegance in the spiritual journey the words propose. One of peace, one of love, one of humility, one of unlimited forgiveness, compassion, empathy, understanding, charity. One, that on a very deep level, far deeper then any sight, sound, smell, taste or touch, can even begin to describe, or that words alone without emotion attempt to record but with difficulty. One, that is the only way to true profound self-worth, purpose, happiness, and above virtues.

    Do I believe these words and its message? Yes; and, it is indeed my fondest and deepest wish that this entire species would give these words some very long and contemplative thought.

    My sincerest apologies to you good sir if my post made you feel harassed or impeded upon in anyway. It was certainly not my intent. When love is at the center of all thought, decision, reason and well consciousness, it becomes very difficult for one to restrain from a simple attempt to do nothing more then to share what one believes to be its source.

    The original poster posed a question to which I gave an honest reply. A reply that was not given on blind faith because any human said its right or wrong. But rather a logical conclusion, I have come to by way of gift, as I walk the journey “the book” and its author propose.

    I wish you nothing more then peace and happiness,

    And well blessings (no offence or sarcasm intended)



     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  11. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    sorry its not that simple, and blessings to you too.

    but the assumption that the rest of the universe exists for the sole entertainment and convenience of our one species,
    to be a stage for the box of our social drama, has no observable logical basis in fact.

    everything that exists does so for its own reasons, and we are no less an accident of their doing so, then is any other one thing among them.

    while i have no doubt as to the existence of one or more self aware beings that are neither physical nor imaginary,
    i have equally no doubt, that whatever of that nature exists, owes nothing to what people tell each other,
    and that goodness and the desire to be feared are absolute binary opposites.

    it is only the hatred of logic, and the lack of universally mutual consideration, that enables the tyranny of the dominance of aggressiveness to exist.
    evil is not a side nor a person, it is a form of behavior.

    the speed bump in humanity's future is our own degradation by our own hands of the environment of our planet.
    we can soften its blow, or make it more painful.

    your god, should something like it choose to exist, has the wisdom to let us learn we can burn our own fingers,
    even if our extinction is risked by allowing us to learn this the hard way.

    utopia to me means the best of worlds, one in which all persons, all everything that is aware of its existence, every mammal and even reptile, and even the hive minds of insects,
    have opportunity to enjoy life, and to do so, without zero sum, robbing anyone else of it in order to.

    we are not, as a species, incapable of this, however a fine propaganda for trying to convince everyone to pretend the same things it might be, to claim and attempt to demonstrate that we are.
     
  12. PhoeNicks

    PhoeNicks Members

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    ...

    Truth be told we exchanged words and debate on here in the past.

    I’ve been on and off on this forum with different accounts since my college days in around ‘02-‘04.

    After a few months of my rants summer of ‘07 you actually did mention that you wished a lot more people that came in the name of Christ were “like me”.

    *shrugs*

    I just call like it is and how its been on my journey.

    Speaking of, ... Brother it’s not my God or your God. It’s Our God. And he and I want nothing more then love, peace and prosperity to radiate out of everything and everyone, And, ... maybe hopefully s’mores by a fire a somewhere on occasion... ... Ya, Utopia would definitely be cool with s’mores.

    Ah, but there in lies a secret. To know God starts with one thing: a desire. I often use this analogy. Want it more then your next meal, or drink, or even breath.

    What say you good sir? Sacrifice your next s’more to know the love I testify to?

    On that note, we are way off topic. Perhaps our words will joust in a different thread someday? :)


     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  13. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    "it", "they", or whatever else the case might be, may be the same god of all religions, baha'u'llah and lao tsu both agree this is the case.
    be that as it may, if it owed anything to what people tell each other, it wouldn't be a god, and if it truly wanted to be feared,
    well nothing that is good, could would or does.

    your "the book" was written entirely by humans for entirely human reasons, partially having to do with the unwillingness of the human ego to accept its own ignorance.
    not all good reasons, not all bad reasons, but all of them entirely human reasons.

    now any time you have the dominance of aggressiveness, you don't even have civilization, you have tyranny.
    now the reason you have, and to that degree require, hierarchy, is that people keep convincing each other to not be universally and mutually considerate.
    otherwise hierarchy as such, would be totally unnecessary. social organization, which can or could be achieved without hierarchy,
    is however useful if you want there to be any sort of infrastructure beyond what single individuals can create by themselves.

    principally that of communication and transportation, which at any useful level, depends on shared and nuanced effort.

    i am aware of this so called "love", and have experienced it several places. it generally tends to last as long as they remain shared enclaves of small numbers of like minded individuals,
    regardless of the specific nature of the interest they share in common, and quickly fades away, if and when those interests gain sufficient popularity to attract people in greater numbers,
    at which point this love, while it may not disappear entirely, becomes diluted by other and more common expectations.

    not to mention more commonly misguided priorities such as personal aggrandizement, often in the form of pursuing massive accumulations of symbolic value.

    what these add up to, is very much not utopian and very much tyrannical.

    what winnows the chaff between utopia and tyranny, is again occams scalpel of consideration, the degree to which it is universal, and the degree to which it is mutual.
     
  14. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    utopia is simply a world with a level playing field everyone can enjoy living in. no zero sum conflicts of anyone having to loose so someone else can enjoy.
    and there's nothing stopping us from having that, other then our own unwillingness to honestly and objectively look at how things actually work,
    and not let our egos lead us down the path of hating logic and inventing "religious" excuses for doing so.

    nothing infallible is required. just unselfish objectivity.
     
  15. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    utopia, is a word which suggests unobtainable. yet everything i would call civilization gets inflicted with this label. yet is well withing the capacities and potentials of our species.
    just as government earning its keep, regardless of details, gets tarred with the wide brush of socialism.

    civilization, as i would define it, very simply means preventing the dominance of aggressiveness.
    which is the surest way of 'leveling the playing field'.

    utopia makes infrastructure serve all, while enslaving none.
    hierarchy, whatever its source, is not itself directly pertinent to the question at hand.

    no adversarial culture to interfere with the motivation, which defines sapience, to be creative,
    no indenture to perceptual prejudices unjustified by universally observable evidence.

    people can believe anything, because the unknown being unknown prevents nothing,
    while still remaining un-germain to the topic question.

    no infallability is required to be universally considerate,
    neither is rocket science, though that at least is potentially useful.

    discussion of utopia only becomes meaningful when we remove the sour grapes of religious and ideological prejudice.
    and yes it can be defined without them and yes it can be attained.
    and attained with no more, and possibly less, effort then is expended on preventing it.

    if you want to talk about morality, there is no morality in the dominance of aggressiveness,
    whatever belief or ideology is used as an excuse to try to justify it.
     
  16. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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  17. Jesse49

    Jesse49 Members

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    No hate and everyone has the basic needs ie: food, shelter, clothing etc.
     
  18. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    That's a rubber room and happy pills....
     
  19. JPN2

    JPN2 Supporters HipForums Supporter

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    Utopian fantasies will come to nothing. Evil will see to it.
     
  20. jimandjan

    jimandjan Member

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    Start by getting rid of corrupt politicians.
     

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