y do we ned scool? (A famous poet's reply)

I did mean Chris, sorry. Beg your pardon

And yeah I do agree with you regarding the things you learn by spending times with others. I also cherish my schooling and what I currently study- I think life in every way is just one big learning curve, even if I did find the education system to not teach me very much I personally find useful.

I love science (physics) for example, am perfectly happy to learn of it, but I don't think it would have needed it to live. School taught me how to be disciplined.

 

Dream Deferred
by Langston Hughes

What happens to a dream deferred?

Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?

Or fester like a sore--
And then run?

Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.

Or does it explode?


I think this is one of the best poems ever written about the importance of seeing our dreams become a reality. Yet, lots of hard work, connecting with other folks with similiar interests, etc. -- still won't guarantee success. Luck and great patience -- that's the ticket. And some folks have had to wait 50 years (or more) to finally see their work appreciated by the public and critics. Hell, poor Emily Dickinson had to wait until after she was dead! Sweet Jesus!

--QP

 

Dude, I was terrible at physics -- and only passed because I had a friend that was a genius at physics, so I taught him how to write a sonnet, and he taught me the basics of science/physics. I always found it odd that someone so brilliant in the field of science -- was completely lost when it came to writing a sonnet or ballad? But I guess it has a lot to do with which side of your brain is more dominant? Anyway, his sonnet earned him a B -- and I passed my wretched physics class. So all was right with the world.

--QP

 

they are more similar in ways than they are different.

 

prison
authoritarian structure
dress code
emphasis on silence and order
negative reinforcement
walk in lines
loss of individual autonomy
abridged freedoms
no input in decision making
set times enforced for walking, eating etc.

school
authoritarian structure
dress code
emphasis on silence and order
negative reinforcement
walk in lines
loss of individual autonomy
abridged freedoms
no input in decision making
set times enforced for walking, eating etc.

this holds true for scottish school at least

 

Heh, suppose it's just logical thinking and creative thinking. People are often better at one or the other. Isn't it that women are more creative and men more literal, and fact based?

Would explain why more I was the only man in my English class. Not a truly bad thing though I must admit

 

Then ask any prison inmate if they'd rather do time in any high school instead of a county jail. At least you get to go home at the end of the day. Plus don't forget the stigma of being an ex-con: society does not forever label high school students criminals. That's just plain silly.

--QP

 

Dude, you had the best of both worlds! I always wished I was better at math and science. But both subjects left me a nervous wreck. Shakespeare, however...

--QP

 

this discussion would require more critical thinking

 

Nice comparison/analysis. Although you did not name your source? However, the prison system in America -- is ten times worse than the first part of your quote. Here's the reality:

PRISON

1. 4-6 inmates crammed in a cell no bigger than a walk-in closet.
2. All snail mail and phone calls -- monitored by the prison staff.
3. One shower a week.
4. A strict visitors list (which means it could take up to a month to spend half an hour with your boyfriend/girlfriend --while 2 guards watch your every move).
5. Only allowed to get snacks from the prison canteen. And this means somebody (a family member) has to supply you with funds. Given how godawful the prison food is -- even a Diet Pepsi is a blessing.
6. Rape and death are daily threats, so one is constantly having to prove his manhood.
7. Access to books and magazines are impossible, unless somebody from the outside is willing to pay the cost to have the items shipped to you.
8. No privacy while you go to the toilet. No walls or door. Every groan and grunt can be heard by your cell mates. In fact, you're lucky if you even have toilet paper.
9. Rise and shine at 6 A.M. Lights out at 10 P.M. No exceptions.
10. No contact with other inmates. A simple hug can put you in solitary for 48 hours.

In short, I fail to see how these harsh conditions compare to being a high school student. But I'm willing to hear you out. Bring it on: I am open minded enough to compare notes and such.

--QP

 

A prisoner has committed a crime, had a fair trial at which he has been found, or admitted being, guilty of committing said crime, and has then been sent to prison. This differs from the high school student, because the high school student has been born, and therefore condemned to a 12-year prison sentence without a trial of any kind.

As for being allowed home at the end of the day, well, to analogise, Mercury is cooler than Venus, but it's still too dang hot to live on.

If children want to go to school, why is it compulsory?
If slaves really wanted to be slaves, why the fugitive slave laws?

School is more similar to prison than it is different.

 

Which you have not once shown any talent for -- or else you are being deliberately obtuse. And I mean that in the friendliest possible way. I wish you all the best.

--QP

 

Again, this is a good analysis, but it has little basis in reality. Do you ever question how many poverty stricken "criminals" actually get a fair trial? Here's the answer: about 10%. So these innocent human beings are being caged up like animals. Are you actually comparing yourself to them?

I don't think your comments are stupid -- far from it. I just think they are as misguided as hell. You are portraying yourself as a hapless victim, when there are folks much worse off. And they are just as innocent as you. So what can we do to improve the system -- instead of trying to decide if high school is just another form of incarceration? That's the question. Remember, all men are created equal. So why should anybody be stuck in a cage? Especially if they are not genuinely guilty of any crime. We all deserve dignity and freedom.

--QP

 

You can only be programmed in school if you choose to be.

 

woopsies, just noticed you posted another reply before I posted that other reply.

the source of that list was a zine on the CWC's website, crimethinc.com. my apologies for not naming it.

I can assure that I have no experience with the conditions of American prisons or schools but I'll give this a shot.

1. 4-6 inmates crammed in a cell no bigger than a walk-in closet.

Being forced to sit still for five and half hours a day, no matter how much space there is, is unpleasant nonetheless.

2. All snail mail and phone calls -- monitored by the prison staff.

No communication with the outside world at all during school time

3. One shower a week.

got me there

4. A strict visitors list (which means it could take up to a month to spend half an hour with your boyfriend/girlfriend --while 2 guards watch your every move).

Separation from said relations due to being in school and doing tedious assignments at home.

5. Only allowed to get snacks from the prison canteen. And this means somebody (a family member) has to supply you with funds. Given how godawful the prison food is -- even a Diet Pepsi is a blessing.

In schools, you're not allowed to leave the classroom even for water.

6. Rape and death are daily threats, so one is constantly having to prove his manhood.

Assault is a daily threat for those not seen to conform to the violent person's image.

7. Access to books and magazines are impossible, unless somebody from the outside is willing to pay the cost to have the items shipped to you.

Children forced to read books.

8. No privacy while you go to the toilet. No walls or door. Every groan and grunt can be heard by your cell mates. In fact, you're lucky if you even have toilet paper.

School toilets are pretty similar besides the walls and doors point. You're not allowed to use the toilets during class times.

9. Rise and shine at 6 A.M. Lights out at 10 P.M. No exceptions.

School children must get up at 7 am everyday in order to get to school on time or else risk detention.

10. No contact with other inmates. A simple hug can put you in solitary for 48 hours.

We've seen a similar rule introduced in a school in the UK, although the punishment is not as extreme. But hugging is frowned upon by the head teacher(s) in every school I've attended.

I don't mean to sound as argumentative as I feel I'm coming across. This is just what I believe.

 

That's a good point actually.

 

i wasn't trying to be unfriendly or obtuse sorry, it's easy to say school is unlike prison because you are free to drop out but further investigation will show they are very similar establishments in their goals, methods, structure, philosophy etc...

 

Excellent point! If I had listened to my teachers and profs:

I'd be straight and married.
I'd have stopped writing poetry.
I'd be teaching some dreary creative writing class in Boston.
I'd be drinking myself senseless, while I mindlessly graded student papers each weekend.

--QP

 

Hey, no problem. I think it's really cool that we are all expressing our opinions. However, I still say there is one huge difference between a student and an inmate: one ultimately gets society's respect, while the other is forever considered suspect. I think all of you are clever enough to get what I mean.

--QP

 

Actually, I've been enjoying the debate. You bring up some good points, and you do so with a sharp mind. I learned early on (first year of college) to cite my sources. I had some pretty rough profs.

In truth, I think you could write an excellent paper about this topic. You got the smarts, so why not earn a credit or two? I mean, it's one thing to debate a heated topic on a forum. It's a bit of fun and a challenge. But I think you are capable of taking it to the next level. Just be careful about which class you are in -- some teachers are more open minded than others. So it's up to you to figure out the best situation. But I think you have the intelligence to get the work done. Just a thought.

--QP