Worst General

Discussion in 'History' started by dirtydog, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. dirtydog

    dirtydog Banned

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  2. Cirius

    Cirius Member

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    The most commonly held worst general in history is burnside, theres your answer according to the vast majority of historians
     
  3. Azog 150

    Azog 150 Member

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    Funny. I think it was more becuase it was a joint effort between 3 massive powers (US, Britain and the USSR). I like how you mention that 80% of Whermacht casualties were suffered fighting the Russian's. I also like how you mention Britain (And commonwealth) holding on completely alone when America didn't even think of joining in and Stalin was busy trying to build up his armies. I also like how you mention the sacrifices of 23 million Russians, 11 million Chinese and 460,000 Brits in fighting the Axis, as well as a lot of devestated European cities. Not to mention all of them were fighting for longer.

    I am not trying to downplay the sacrifices of the US, but it annoys me soooo much when American's have this whole 'We saved your asses' attitude, treating war like its some kind of game. The USA was thousands of miles from the warzones and did not feel the effect of devestated cities and dead women and children. When they come along with this high and mighty attitude, it real annoys Europeans who lived through and suffered the war first hand. (I say suffered first hand, obviously not me personally.....)
     
  4. dirtydog

    dirtydog Banned

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  5. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    While this is true at the same time the US's contribution to the war effort can't be denied. Both Britain and the Soviet Union relied greatly on lend lease supplies even before 1942. Without American manpower and supplies the Italian front and the western front probably wouldn't have existed, and Italy probably would've stayed in the war, given the Germans much more to throw into the eastern front. Honestly Japan was probably the biggest impact in Germany's downfall. Japan most likely could've invaded the Dutch east indies for their oil supplies without the Americans going to war. Even after Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt knew he didn't have the support to declare war on Germany, many Americans were wary of getting involved in "Europe's" war again.
     
  6. Azog 150

    Azog 150 Member

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    I fully agree that without US supplies we would have fell. I also fully agree that a Western Front could probably have not been launched. Not so sure about the Italian front mind. If Britain had forgotton about launching a campaign in the West and poured all their man power and supplies into Italy, they could have kept that front going. Afterall, it was the British and Commonwealth who basically won in North Africa (I know a joint Britih-Amrican force arrived towards the end and sped things up, but after El Alamein the Germans/Italians fate was practically sealed).

    Like I said, I am not trying to downply US sacrifices. I fully understand it would have been a hell of a lot harder if not impossible without US boots on the ground, and they certainly sped things up. I also agree that we wouldn't have pushed back the Japanese in the Pacific (Unless there was anohter 5 years of war or something)- we couldhave just heled onto what we had left (Burma, India, Australia) and that was it probably.


    Probably true. Afterall, it was only after Japan attacked the US that Grmany declared war on the US.
     
  7. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    Of all the big mistakes Hitler made, that was by far the worst, at the same exact time Monty and the British were winning at El Alamein and Stalingrad was going very badly. Interesting fact at the later parts in the war Stalingrad haunted Hitler's dreams, literally. He told his doctor when he'd try to sleep it'd basically be an orchestra of military operations being conducted in his head. He'd relive every order he made, where he ordered every division to move, ect.
     
  8. AT98BooBoo

    AT98BooBoo Senior Member

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    I'm well aware of all the above facts, but unfortunately I believe you completely missed my point. I'm pointing out the difference between the United States' military accomplishements in WWII vs Iraq War. The big difference? Leadership. FDR vs. GW Gen. Eishenhower vs. Gen.Petreaus aka Gen. Betrayus
     
  9. AT98BooBoo

    AT98BooBoo Senior Member

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    I may be mistaken but I do believe I heard someone once say that Russia best Generals are December, January, February. That Russian Winter gets 'em everytime.
     
  10. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    Yup, even in WW2, take Stalingrad, aside from anything, one huge problem is they hadn't anticipated the battle to go on for so long and most of the German soldiers had not been issued winter uniforms. On top of that both in the fall and spring there was the muddy season as the rain came/snow melted which turned a lot of the roads into a mess for the panzers. Take the moscow offensive, the panzers got bogged down, and finally got to really get going again when the ground froze over, where they encountered another problem. They kept breaking down as they weren't built to deal with the extreme cold.

    I wouldn't say the nazi retreat from Russia was a complete disaster either. Even after Operation Uranus and Saturn the Germans were still able to launch Kursk. But the failure of that, combined with it failing at the time the Italian front opened up/Italy left the war started to put overwhelming odds on the Germans.

    Though it was almost that, Manstein kept the whole southern German flank from collapsing in the winter of 42/43 and managed to go back on the offensive at Feb. 43 and win at the third battle of Khrakov.
     
  11. AT98BooBoo

    AT98BooBoo Senior Member

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    I may be mistaken but I believe that alot of German tanks were diesel powered. Diesel fuel does funny things when its -40 degrees.(farenheit).
     
  12. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    Yup, they basically had to keep the tanks running 24/7, not a good for a military that faces fuel shortages
     
  13. dirtydog

    dirtydog Banned

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  14. meridianwest

    meridianwest Senior Member

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    Napoleon is among the greatest generals ever lived. what the fuck man?
     
  15. TheMadcapSyd

    TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

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    Tactically he was great, but he made the grand strategic mistake of attacking Russia without defeating Britain and thinking securing Moscow would end the war there.
     
  16. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Worst- General Hysteria
    Best- General Anesthesia
     
  17. meridianwest

    meridianwest Senior Member

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    i agree with that. Russia and Spain were both huge mistakes. and he made them at the same time. but i don't think it had a lot to do with his strategic abilities. it was more a result of his personality than anything else. that aside, i still consider Napoleon ingenious.
     
  18. yellowcab

    yellowcab Fresh baked

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    He was ingenious until he started his ill fated march to Moscow and the even more ill fated retreat. Marching your entire army to death puts you in ranking as one of the worst generals, kind of glosses over past victories.
     
  19. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    St. Clair v. Shawnees in Ohio gets my vote.
     
  20. dirtydog

    dirtydog Banned

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