Left-wing fascism

Discussion in 'Fascism' started by xAnonymousx, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. xAnonymousx

    xAnonymousx Member

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    It just occured to me that not all fascism needs to be full of hate or restrictions of freedom. My personal philosophy falls within the borders of Oligarchical Collectivism and Libertarian Authoritarianism. So isn't it possible that some fascists can be open minded people? I mean not all of us are out to take away rights and discriminate.
     
  2. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    Most liberals claim to be open-minded, when they are in fact often the most close-minded people and completely intolerant of anything that is not in line with their politically correct way of thinking. So yeah, fascism often does present itself as being "open-minded" and "tolerant." Open-minded and tolerant when it comes to people believing what they want them to believe.

    Fascism, like socialism and communism, is almost always initially sold to the masses in a utopian light.

    But fascism in a nutshell is the restriction of freedom. Why else would anybody want to have complete control over a society? Fascism is a product of control freaks. It always has been.
     
  3. Conservationist

    Conservationist Member

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    Because the ability of judgment is unequal among individuals.
     
  4. Rauxbaught

    Rauxbaught Member

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    Going off Mussolini style fascism, it's important to remember that fascism is very honest about what it is.

    This wasn't really true with Hitler, who sorta swindled the people. While Mussolini didn't wait for the people to support his idea (as that would be democratic), he wasn't outright deceptive. This point may seem trite, but for me it seems very important, as most politics seems to be rather opaque today.

    So, can fascism be left-leaning? Most certainly!

    To break it down, fascism just means having a corporatist model (ergo "the third way"), and usually a few other traits. Since fascism is defined rather poorly, these traits are not absolutely necessary, but instead just common.

    • A strong/popular/decisive leader.
    • A focus on the state as the primary actor, rather than the individual (arguably this is necessary, if the word 'fascism' is to be prefered over neo-corporatist)
    • A jingoistic foreign policy
    • An ethnocentric immigration policy

    So, in the barest sense of the word, a fascist state really only needs two things: a corporatist economic model, and the state being the center of attention rather than the individual. Is that left leaning, or right leaning? Well, neither.

    Again, this goes back to why Fascism is called "the third way" - it ain't free-market capitalism or communism/socialism.

    With the state serving as a mediator between parties in the corporatist setup, it can choose to either side with the workers or with the owners, that's completely up to the state's discretion and picking either side does not change the fascist element.

    As for the state-focus rather than individual-focus, that seems almost left leaning. Sure, the left cares about the collective rather than the state, but there's certainly room for overlap.

    In fact, the only political wing fascism is exclusive with would be Libertarianism, as that denies state focus and promotes the individual. I know Libertarianism itself is difficult to place as left/right (Noam Chomsky won't shut up about his Libertarian Socialism), but more often than not it's found on the right.

    So, in short, while fascism can be left leaning, I don't think it'll jive with your Libertarian bent.
     
  5. 42snihctih42

    42snihctih42 Member

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    what exactly is this 'politically correct' way of thinking that liberals are trying to forcefully impose on people.

    as far as im concerned if one of my employees is going around saying '****** this ****** that' i have the right to fire him just because i dont like it, does that make me a fascist?

    you have free speech but you cant expect society to not judge you by what you say.
     
  6. 42snihctih42

    42snihctih42 Member

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    look how politically incorrect limbaugh and savage and their ilk are and noones coming down on them for it?
     
  7. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Rush got himself in huge trouble with his mouth.

    In a football segment he said that NFL types are over-invested in Donovan McNab in order to see a black quarterback succeed.

    He lost his NFL gig and had to go to rehab for a pain killer addiction.
    He still has his radio show This was 3 years ago

    Don Imus got into trouble and lost his show on WFAN by making racial comments about a college basketball team.
     
  8. LetLovinTakeHold

    LetLovinTakeHold Cuz it will if you let it

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    What if your employee was black that was saying that? Would you still fire him/her?
     
  9. Gedio

    Gedio Member

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    Fascism is a right wing form of government by definition, I'm not sure what the term for left-wing fascism is though sorry.
     
  10. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Argentina comes to mind
     
  11. slurpie

    slurpie Member

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    I'm not sure where to start with this thread, so I'll go ahead and start right here at the top with these two posts.

    First of all, the title is "Left-Wing Fascism," which an oxymoron in itself because of the definition of Fascism, which is that it is authoritarian and right-wing. There are Left-Wing authoritarian systems, but they are not Fascism because they are Left-Wing. So, read a dictionary.

    Secondly, the OP completely misses the definition of Fascism and then proceeds to equate, for no good reason at all, "Left-Wing" with "Open-Mindedness." Where does this come from? Do you just eat paint chips and watch MSNBC all day or what? Left-Wing politics are notoriously not open-minded. Just because you are a "Liberal" and you believe in Unicorns and Equality doesn't mean that "Left-Wing" means open-mindedness.

    BUT THEN

    The reply by Pressed_Rat goes on its own inane frolic down Let's Define Stuff However We Want Street. Fascism, in a nutshell, is not "restriction of freedom." It's a political-economic system in which Government has absolute control over everything, and it goes much farther than "Restricting Freedom." There are plenty of governments that restrict freedom, but aren't even slightly Fascist.

    Furthermore, statements like "Most Liberals claim to be open minded [but] they are in fact often the most closed-minded people..." reek of "I think I'm conservative but really I'm just a douche."

    I'm trying really hard to pick a side in this argument, but so far my options are Dumb and Slightly Less Dumb. So I'm opting for the third option: Shut Up.
     
  12. LetLovinTakeHold

    LetLovinTakeHold Cuz it will if you let it

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    Restriction of freedom vs government having complete control

    Sounds like the same damn thing to me
     
  13. slurpie

    slurpie Member

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    Well, yes. It would be the same thing if your freedom were the only thing that goes into making your nation. Unfortunately for the oversimplified points of view espoused by "The Left™" and "The Right™," there is actually much more that goes into it.

    Absolute Control means absolute control. Restriction of Freedom just means absolute control over you.
     
  14. Man Yellow

    Man Yellow Member

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    Slurpie makes some excellent points.

    I mean, instead of saying "left wing fascism" which is an oxymoron, why not just say "statism"?

    That covers wingnuts on both sides of the aisle.
     
  15. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    Fascism has nothing to do with left and right. That is a huge fallacy.

    One definition of fascism pertains to strict authoritarian rule. The other pertains to the merger of the corporation and the state.

    Also, keep in mind that contrary to what history often teaches, Hitler was actually a socialist. He has far more in common with the left than the right, since he favored centralized control.

    Left and right has more to do with the size and scope of government than anything else. Words have been twisted over time, however, to meet the agenda of the ones in control.
     
  16. slurpie

    slurpie Member

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    So THIS is how conservatives become batshit crazy autocrats. You think the farther Right you go, the less government there is! With no limit! HAHAHAHA!!!

    Look, teabilly. Left and Right effectively lose all distinction at the extremes. Extreme left and extreme right can be equally oppressive. "Fascism" describes which direction you go to get there, not the end result. And it is definitively "Right."

    Jesus. Quit listening to your uneducated relatives and radio hosts and read history. Preferably at a real college, where they pay people to know what they're talking about, not just to sound like they do.
     
    granite45 likes this.
  17. Kaliayev

    Kaliayev Guest

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    No they don't. I mean, unless you're just making shit up.

    Left and Right originally refer to positions in the French Assembly, in particular on whether one supported the monarchy, aristocracy and clergy or the Republic, secularism and and people without titles.

    Nowadays things are a bit more complex, but both left and right wing politics have their authoritarian (fascist-militarist, communist) and libertarian (right-libertarianism, syndicalist anarchist) strains.

    But you know, if you can't handle the complexity of politics as they actually are and so want to believe in such an obvious and simple lie as the one I quoted, feel free to do so.
     
  18. zenmagma022

    zenmagma022 Member

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    Fascism is control by corporations....do your politicians take money from corporations?...end of story
     
  19. zenmagma022

    zenmagma022 Member

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    "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
     
  20. Kaliayev

    Kaliayev Guest

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    Also not true.

    Mussolini said fascism is corporatism, but that does not mean control by corporations.

    This, of course, also sounds rather similar to modern bureaucratic democracy.
     

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