Bible Questions?

Discussion in 'Sanctuary' started by OlderWaterBrother, May 17, 2009.

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  1. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    I was thinking that a number of people may have questions about what the Bible says and would like to have an answer.

    For example:
    If God is love, how can hellfire be justified?
    Where did Cain's wife come from?
    When and how are the meek going to inherit the Earth? Etc.

    Not to say I have all answers but I'll try and look it up.
    Also I'd be interested in the answers others have found for these and other Bible questions.

    I'm thinking more of a place for reading different answers to questions, than a place for arguing over the answers. Although I can see some discussion of the answers.
     
  2. White_Horse_Mescalito

    White_Horse_Mescalito ""

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    I would ask... but I'm not suppose to be in the sanctuary ;)

    Forum Description: For Christians ONLY!
     
  3. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    If God is love, how can hellfire be justified?
     
  4. Therese Aline

    Therese Aline Slave to the man

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  5. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    Rudenoodle, you already know my answer to this but I'd like to hear some others answer before I answer it there.
     
  6. White_Horse_Mescalito

    White_Horse_Mescalito ""

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    I guess I can blurt it out regardless of if I am supoose to be here or not.

    the question has to do with ... I think it's in the Book of Daniel.

    About Daniel interrupting Nebuchadnezzars dream.

    I don't think there will be any support references to such events going on nowdays, perhaps I'm wrong... so it's like this how do dreams tie in with things we may need to know today... is there a pipeline still open :)
     
  7. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    Whether you are a Christian or not doesn't bother me unless you are here just to denigrate Christianity and that case the Christianity forum is what you are looking for. But if you have a question about the Bible you've always wondered about; I'd say that, at least in this thread, feel free to ask away whether you are a Christian or not.

    In this thread let’s just use; don’t ask, don’t tell. If you don’t do or say something to tell, I won’t ask.
     
  8. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    As I understand it the pipeline is closed. The Bible seems to say that God no longer needs to work that way. That God has given us all we need to know and anything more at this time would be redundant and would draw attention away from his original message, the Bible.

    If you want I can give you some scriptures on that but I'm going to get some supper right now.
     
  9. Mrdude46

    Mrdude46 Member

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  10. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    In my opinion it can't be justified. So to me either God is not love or the doctrine of hellfire is wrong. Since 1 John 4:8 plainly says that "God is love..." then repeats it in verse 16, I would have to say that the doctrine of hellfire is wrong.
     
  11. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    So in your mind the concept of hell is just a misunderstanding throughout the bible?

    If I'm not mistaken in the old testament does not mention an after life, after the hateful and cruel god of it is done torturing you or burning your fields or whatever they cover you with dirt and he is done with you.

    It's not until Jesus shows up that it's mentioned that the real fun starts after your dead.

    Is that accurate?
     
  12. Mrdude46

    Mrdude46 Member

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    Yes that is true the OT does not mention hell or heaven, the OT does speak of the Kingdom of G-d, not heaven or hell. I think that it is a mistranslation of the greek word for grave haties vs sheole hebrew. Both mean "grave" not hell. The concept of hell was given a lot of credence with Dante's inferno, and the church fathers found that book helpful for keeping the church members in the pews. After all mistranslations can provide a help for the church then so be it.

    You yourself no one else creates he/her own heaven or hell right here right now. I know that for those of you who have been living your life for the future promise "heaven or hell" this might not set well, but the truth is the truth, the Jews have been waiting for 3500 year for the Ha Misheach "the anointed one" not heaven or hell. This is important because if you are Christian and you base your religion on the Jewish/Christian faith then there was a disconnect some where along the line, the concept of heaven was first sold by Paul, the catholic church carry if from there and then Dante's book in the 1500's cemented the policy.

    If the NT and OT are taken without their mistranslations the concept of Heaven or hell cannot be supported. The original hebrew Paelo Hebrew
    also know as Canaanite or picturegraph hebrew does not have the words to make these concepts. Yes I do speak read and understand Hebrew, the word s in greek are recent concepts taken from greek religions (Apollo Zeus, etc) and their concepts of heaven and hell. The name Jesus, you'll notice the suffice "SUS" this is the term used by greeks to denote a demigod or little god. Dianisus for example. The Name Jesus means the Son of Zeus, as they would interpret someone who was the son of God.

    Here's a good read, Hislop's "the two babylons" Yes I have this book, very very good on the subject of the origins of the Christian religion. Before you think that this book was written by a Christian hater you should know he was a Church of England Priest.

    Peace
    Dan
     
  13. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    So, if God is Love as the Bible says, let’s examine the doctrine of “Hellfire”.

    Now, even though I don't believe it, some say that the God of the "Old Testament” is an "angry vengeful" God, if that were true let’s see how that "vengeful" God treats the dead. First of all, nowhere in the “OT” does it say or show that God created “Hell”, the word translated as “Hell” In the “OT” is Sheol and means; the common grave of mankind, gravedom; not an individual burial place or grave nor an individual tomb.

    There is no English word that conveys the precise sense of the Hebrew word she’ohl′. Commenting on the use of the word “hell” in Bible translation, Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says: “Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.” More recent versions transliterate the word into English as “Sheol.”

    But, according to the “OT”, what is the condition of the dead in Sheol?

    (Ezekiel 18:4) 4 Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.
    (Ecclesiastes 9:4-6) 4 For as respects whoever is joined to all the living there exists confidence, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.
    (Ecclesiastes 9:10) 10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going.
    (Psalm 146:4) His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.

    Why would the “angry vengeful” God of the “OT” treat the dead better than the happy loving God of the “New Testament”? So maybe the “hellfire” scriptures in the “NT” are talking about something other than “hellfire”, what do you think?
     
  14. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    What I believe is if you discard what the “OT” says about “hell” then it’s pretty easy to believe in “hellfire” but if you take the “OT” into account, what it says tells you that the Scriptures, that are generally used to support “hellfire”, must mean something else.

    You are correct, the “OT” does not mention an after life mainly because there isn’t one, the dead are … well dead and in the Bible the only hope that is offered for the dead, is the hope of the resurrection.

    If you mean that it is accurate that most “Christians” believe in “hellfire” then you are being accurate.
     
  15. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    Is the concept of attaining "heavenly" status after death unhealthy since it promotes a view of reality that claims death is preferable to life?

    Is "necrotic" bribery (or intimidation) morally justifiable?
     
  16. FireflyInTheDark

    FireflyInTheDark Sell-out with a Heart of Gold

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    LOL, that's an interesting way to look at it... I pity whoever takes it THAT seriously, though. Damn.
     
  17. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    Tell that to a Muslim suicide bomber.
     
  18. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    As I've been pointing out in my discussion of "hellfire", according to the Bible attaining "heavenly" status after death for the vast majority of mankind is not an option, the vast majority of mankind are in Sheol (hell) awaiting the resurrection.
     
  19. Tsurugi_Oni

    Tsurugi_Oni Member

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    Yah... the Bible is kinda vague on a lot of important issues....

    What kind of God punishes a finite human to infinite punishment?

    We're given such a short existence, in temporal fashion. We could be born an Eskimo and have an abusive father. We may have loving parents but never find out how to love ourselves. We clumsily redefine at every moment who we want to be, and we evolve from naive paradigms of the world to more useful ones.

    So we only get a tiny blip of time to reach and KNOW ultimate truth? And if we don't we burn for eternity in a flaming lake?

    Nooo this isn't the unconditional love that a mother gives her child. To let that child stumble 99x as they find their way in life, and still love and support them in the end.

    It's a love so divine and pure that we can't even comprehend it with our tiny human brains. And we'll have all eternity in Hell to feel God's grace..

    Lol...
     
  20. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    Try reading what has been posted before posting something like; "What kind of God punishes a finite human to infinite punishment?". If you had, you would have read the posts that say the Bible does not teach “hellfire” and so your post is pointless.
     
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