If you're not a religious Jew, you're not a Jew

Discussion in 'Judaism' started by xexon, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. xexon

    xexon Destroyer Of Worlds

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    As Judaism is a religion, and those who follow it are called Jews, what do do call a person who doesn't follow the religion?

    Can't call them a Jew. No such thing as a Jewish race. No such thing as a Jewish people.

    We have to move away from emotional ethnic identifications and stick to the technical facts. We don't call former Catholics Catholic, do we?

    We shouldn't be doing it to Jews either.

    Let those who practice the religion be known as Jews.

    Let the rest find another gig to wheez off of. You can't call yourself Jewish anymore.



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  2. Varuna

    Varuna Senior Member

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    If your mother is Jewish, you are born Jewish, you are a Jew. It doesn't matter what you believe.
     
  3. xexon

    xexon Destroyer Of Worlds

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    But it matters what other people believe about it.

    Worked in the days of Moses, not now. Tighter ethnic concentration of a semantic people back then.

    Judaism is now JUST A RELIGION.

    If you're not religious, you're not a Jew. Age of concent comes around at 18, you can declare yourself apart from your upbringing. If you embrace Mormonism, then you're a Mormon, not a Jew.

    Say you were raised in a Jewish household, I'm fine with that. But call yourself a Jew after you've given up the religion, you have no entitlement.

    This idea of a Jewish people or race has to go down.

    Judaism isn't genetic. It's just a religion.



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  4. undefeated

    undefeated Member

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    yes if your in a religion u dhould follow its rules.but all religions have hypocrites in it- just the way it is
     
  5. neodude1212

    neodude1212 Senior Member

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    Man, you are really stuck on this Jew thing, huh xexon?
     
  6. xexon

    xexon Destroyer Of Worlds

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    If Judaism is going to survive as a religion, it has to cast off the zionist idea of what a Jew is.

    It is misrepresenting the Torah idea and substituting it's own. Inciting racial hatred as it does.

    If I was a true Jew, religious and not affiliated with zionism, I'd be pretty upset over the direction of modern Judaism has taken, under the protective wing of these hatemongers who have the audacity to call themselves Jews.

    They are the enemy of the Jews. Not I.

    This is an internal problem for Judaism to sort out.

    But they need help.



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  7. Varuna

    Varuna Senior Member

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    Your myopia is selective, every other nation in the region is a Muslim state. Why shouldn't there be a Jewish state? Why shouldn't Israel have a home?
     
  8. Funkateer

    Funkateer To swing on the spiral

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    I am a jew I have never practiced the religion. However my mother is jewish which means I am a jew... Xennon you should learn about the religion before you talk shit. If you are born to a jew mother then you are a jew.
     
  9. xexon

    xexon Destroyer Of Worlds

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    You're not a Jew then. You are a programmed person however.

    Judaism is NOT carried by DNA, understand? It's a belief.

    Doesn't matter what a "religious law" says about it. Some of these laws are the basis for the racist attitudes that exists in Israel and elsewhere.

    This happens in all religious states. Israel is just a Kosher version of Iran in many many ways.




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  10. xexon

    xexon Destroyer Of Worlds

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    I will never support a religious state. Anybody's.

    You must understand something, I don't want to see Israel pushed into the sea like you might think. I want to see a unified Israel, where Jews and Muslims and Christians are absolute equals. Not this poor excuse of a democracy.

    Israel as it is cannot survive. And it's certainly not going to do it's evil deeds with my taxpayer dollar. Israel must give up the idea as a "Jewish" state, which it's never been anyhow.

    It's a zionist state. From day 1. And it's been involved in ethnic cleansing even before it gained status as a nation in the UN. It's brought Jews from all over the world and settled them on land taken from the natives. The Palestinians. REAL semites, who belong in this part of the world.

    But I suppose you're okay with this occupation?

    And that's exactly what Israel is. Occupied.

    By REAL anti-semites.



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  11. Varuna

    Varuna Senior Member

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    Xexon, at this point, you can't even make the case that you know what you're talking about. Any argument about Judaism is not yours to make, you have undermined your own authority with unfounded and indefensible arguments based on your opinions and some half-assed conspiracy theory. I hope one day soon, you'll make an effort to learn something real, you may find peace that way.

    You may begin your rant now.
     
  12. xexon

    xexon Destroyer Of Worlds

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    Face facts. Most Jews don't even know who they are.

    Thery've been given several definitions in recent years. The one thing they are not is zionist, because zionism does not belong to Judaism.

    Have some reading material. This book was on the best seller list in Israel for 19 weeks. http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9884.shtml

    Because it hit a nerve, and asks valid questions.

    I ask you be brave enough to challenge what you've been told.



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  13. famewalk

    famewalk Banned

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    But Xexon, did you like Netanyahu the other day? He's a real left winger at heart after all. His idea was to conservatively let the minority make the politically decisive decisions, but all in all he'll get them all to decent commonwealth work. Like Ford in the thirties.
     
  14. xexon

    xexon Destroyer Of Worlds

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    This is a cabinet of war criminals. Then as now. I hope to see them arrested when they step outside of Israel someday.

    These people are nobody's friend except other for zionsts. Jew or gentile.

    It's the zionist idea of what a Jew is that I have issues with. It's racist, and it shouldn't be tolerated, least of all by Jews themselves.

    Some have latched onto this ideaology because it gives them power. Mob power. When you come from a country where you may have had it rough as a Jew, Israel is like a breath of fresh air. It's intoxicating for many because you're at the top of the food chain for once in your life. This is how zionism recruits young people. It then encourages them to fight to stay there.

    Not to be good Jews, but to be good zionists.

    A kosher Hitler youth.

    Jews that see this danger, and what zionism represents, are far too silent. History now begs to be repeated yet again because of it.

    The abused has turned into the abuser.



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  15. famewalk

    famewalk Banned

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    You don't mean systemic racism. But if you did then it would be alterable on the existence of an ideology for an ideology realizable in Praxis. But as far as immedediate practice is concerned for intellectuals (like us two) or theoretically entertained business people then it's a matter of assuming a good piece of intolerance is like sex. But now were supposed to be right wing. In other words the workers are godless entities of hopeful skills.

    God is dead. Kill him one more time.
     
  16. inextesie

    inextesie Give us what ya got

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    Judaism is the only religion that is also i use this term loosely, a race.

    My mother was born jewish, so that makes me jewish to.

    I do not practice, but I am still and always will be till the day I die, a jew.
     
  17. piscesqueen

    piscesqueen Member

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    interesting thread...

    non religious jews are still jews...just like non practicing/lapsed catholics are still catholics.

    there are many types of jews & different levels if you will of observance...
    incl orthodox (incl chassidic)/conservative/reform/modern orthodox...
     
  18. piscesqueen

    piscesqueen Member

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    while this is true it is dictated by your religion...judaism is not passed on in the genes so to speak...it is not a race.

    the vast majority of countires in the middle east are indeed as you say muslim countires but this is b/c the majority of arabs who live in the middle east are muslim...similarly islam is the religion...not a race of ppl...but arabs are a race. The Jewish Diaspora started way back in biblical times (to the time of jacob i think...) since jews have been scattered to the four corners of the earth as it said in Deuteronomy (Devarim/hebrew) in the Torah...that they would be...they have since settled & mixed with so many diff ppls & races...for eg the chassidic movement began in eastern europe in C18th.


    wouldn't expect you to take my word for it!! why should you?? i'm not jewish!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsKFoLLpQWw&feature=channel_page
    ronen puts it A LOT better than i ever could...he used to post on here as questing400 but passed not long ago...huge inspiration to many ppl & he has quite a following for his videos on youtube (of all places!! LOL) RIP ronen...
     
  19. piscesqueen

    piscesqueen Member

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    very loosely indeed as its not a race its a religion (sorry repeating myself a bit now) don't forget ppl can convert to judaism y'know!! just like they can convert to islam...but ppl can not convert to be an arab for instance...
     
  20. piscesqueen

    piscesqueen Member

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    sorry for all my posts just playing catch up!! i have always been intrigued by judaism & have got to know several jewish ppl recently too so subject of special interest to me...

    i gather some of your comments have been met with disapproval on here LOL but i have to agree with your 'kosher iran' comment. i respect all jews & i am fascinated by judaism & its culture & history. particularly in awe of the level of observance shown by chassidic jews...BUT when it comes to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict...judaism is a religion NOT a race...so why should there be a jewish state?? Israel and Palestine should be unified to form a single secular state as was intended in 1948...after all Jerusalem is holy to three religions...

    yes you're right semites are ppl indigenous to southwestern Asia, including Hebrews, Arabs, and Ethiopian Semites.

    back in 1947 the idea had been that Palestine was to house both Jews and Arabs – together. Together, the two very different people were supposed to live happily ever-after. But instead, the Palestinians were forced to leave their homeland...i don't think the israelis at the time ever intended to abide by the UN proposals in reality...

    as far back as 1938 Ben-Gurion said to other Zionists, “after we become a strong force, as the result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine.” Sure enough, after the creation of the state in 1948, Menachem Begin made clear how serious the “Jews accepting the UN partition” was in reality, “The partition of the Homeland is illegal . It will never be recognized"...

    The ensuing Arab-Israeli war ended with Israel expanding its share of the land by a third, while what remained for the Arabs was occupied by Egypt and Jordan. Several hundred thousands of Palestinians fled their homes, becoming the refugees at the heart of the conflict. Israel has always denied that they were expelled, either forcibly or as a matter of policy.

    in 1997 fifty yrs after creation of the state of israel the french newspaper le monde re-examined the expulsion of the Palestinians...for me the following quote sums up their 10 yrs of research in to the subject...

    "Only a few acknowledged that the father's story of return, redemption and liberation was also a story of conquest, displacement, oppression and death."
    Yaron Ezrahi, "Rubber Bullets" (Israeli political scientist. Professor of Political Science at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem...& jewish...)

    i have never understood why the jewish ppl who settled in israel would want to push & push for more land from the arab ppl...after the horrors jewish ppl suffered during the holocaust i would have expected more compassion & understanding...not a campaign to displace another ppl from their homes... when i was younger i always thought two wrongs don't make a right & my views haven't changed on this simple point...of course we had european guilt thrown in to the mix too re the holocaust. if that wasn't enough there was the jewish 'its in the bible' argument that the jews had been promised israel (or rather judaea & palestine as it was back then) by god...The Promised Land...as his 'Chosen People'...

    now while i don't dispute that it does actually say this in the Torah...jews are expecting the rest of the world (ie almost 6 billion non jews....) to uphold THEIR truth/THEIR belief in the Torah as the literal word of god...while other religions believe THEIR truth is THE truth too. we should respect each & every religion (actually no i draw the line at the spaceship/tom cruise one!! LOL). i believe ALL faiths are valid & i believe there is truth & teachings to be found in ALL sacred texts of ALL religions..that there are many paths to god (to quote gandhi) BUT NO faith should be able to impose its beliefs on society & in so doing resulting in the displacement of almost a whole nation!! (btw there are 14 million jews in the world compared to 1 billion muslims & 2.5 billion followers of christianity...)

    there should be no place for religion in politics esp in a modern democracy (if that is what israel is still trying to model itself on??? i do hope so after all iran never been exactly known for its tolerance, as witnessed by recent events!!) separation of church & state is the only way forward in the C21st anything else just breeds intolerance & discrimination...

    one last video by ronen...
    i love his openess & honesty here!! judaism his best guess etc (this from a former chosid!!)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7XgUdESNvk&feature=channel_page
     

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