Time

Sigh. Dejectedly now: Is it so hard to read a few paragraphs? Is it really that difficult to think for a change? Why not do more than merely arraive at an unsupported position and then shut off the ol' brain? We all have theis amazing capacity to think, to flesh out sometimes compicated logical arguments. We can do more then simply wander about and drool on ourselves. We all have fantastic mental abilities, we should be using them for more than blatant parroting of child phrases about squirells and rabbits going to bed.

You don't agree with my ideas about time. That's wonderful, that's fantastic, but please tell me why. If you are posting here it is probably because you are interested in the subject (six posts in two pages does not indicate lack of interest). I'm sure than you have a much more interesting and compelling reason for thinking that time is man made than you have put forth so far. Time is man made becasue squirells and rabbits don't go to bed at 10 pm!? That can't be it for you can it?

 

There's at least one kind of speed that is NOT relative (the speed of light), which is sufficient. The relativity of anything else can be measured using that.

Do you actually think that what exists in one's head does not exist? And what about my body? Scars? Not the direct result of my past? The thing thaat matters is that past HAS existed, not that it never will again.

 

I don't have to be home as six o'clock or in bed at 10pm. Do you? But I can find out exactly when the sun is going to set in my location to within a fraction of a second. I can tell you when the next lunar eclipse will be and if you are measuring time on a similar scale (which you are) you will be able to know almost exactly when that is just by relaying a few numbers to you. We may experience time differently, but the experience of time remains the same.

We use time to measure so many things with pretty exacting accuracy. Is anything manmade that perfect? Sure OUR scale of time is made up. But so is every single thing you can and will ever talk about. A gallon is made up, but it is still a valid, repeatable, communicable manner in which to tell you how much fluid is in a container. OUR time scale must be changed and perfected with technology and trial to more accurately measure the passage of the VERY real thing called time. However, every word and idea, every meaning and description, every measurement and conclusion is still just mans attempt to describe, categorize, distinguish, and classify one thing from or with another.
So yes our terminology and measuring system is made up, just like everything else we can put words to, but time goes on nonetheless...

 

Fractual,
sorry, but time is not man made. Time flows slower in close proximity to huge celestial bodies, for example.

 

Time goes slower near any gravitational source... Einstein illustrated gravity as a warp in space/time fabric. Which makes me wonder...

As you progress further and further from gravitational bodies (ie: away from the earth, away from the sun, out into deep space beyond our galaxy) does time just continue to speed up? It seems it should. Surely there is concrete evidence suipporting or contradicting this thought, but I have thus far failed to find it.

 

I think the difference isn't that huge, my dear.

Anyway, even if it did... how would you know? Any ideas?

 

The shadow of a tree moving around in a clockwise manner is not "time". "Time" is just a pattern used to measure the speed that it happens. The earth rotates. That has nothing to do with time whatsoever. It is the speed of the rotation that causes the shadow to move.

And the moon and stars? Same thing. You (whoever it was) through out some numbers on the moon, and also 28 days. But you see, those are measurements. It is just using a specific pattern to predict how fast the moon, for example, goes around the earth and how many times.

I apologize if this makes no sense. I am desperately attempting to get my point across!

I like how this thread is going!

 

I am not trying to debate whether or not time is a measurement. It is, and it is quite an effective one. You are all throwing out numbers that are used as measurements, and thats not what Im getting at.

Time is not a force. It is not a force that moves. The sun does not rise and the earth does not spin and people do not age because "time" said so. They are just natural processes. And time is used to chategorize, measure, and predict those natural processes.

Was that a little better of an explanation?

 

Well, the point is, time exists, because we know it "flows" differently in different places. Slower in the presence of mass (or mass with speed). Things like that.

 

Do you have any sources?

 

Ah yes, certainly. I do see how my tree shadow example could have been confusing. I was not attempting to equate human time measurements with time itself, nor was my intent to equate earth's rotation with time itself. My point was in response to Fractual's apparent position that time can only be measured with and only exists due to man made measuring devices.

You are correct of course, the progression of the shadow of a tree is not time itself. It is, however, an example of repeated observable natural phenomena that can be used to measure time in a non-specific manner and without the aid of any man made devices whatsoever. More concretely, caveman Gronk could say "I see by the position of the tree shadow that it will be dark soon" or in a different situation "I see by the position of the tree shadow that it has been bright outside for only a short while". Of course it would make more sense for caveman Gronk to just look at the sun, but that is not the point. The point is that without aide of man made devices, and without aide of specific time quantities, e.g., hours, seconds, days, caveman Gronk is able to judge time nontheless.

It is similar to your analogy (I think that it was you anyhow) of the gallon. As you said, a gallon is not volume itself it is merely a human measurment of volume.

 

Of course.

"This [Einstein's general theory of relativity] then yields many predictions such as gravitational redshifts and light bent around stars, black holes, time slowed by gravitational fields, and slightly modified laws of gravitation." (You can find the whole article here. As you can see, the slowing down of time is one consequence of Einstein's general theory of relativity.)

 

Oh, found an article that mentions this more clearly.

Encarta says:

"Einstein’s first major contribution to the study of time occurred in 1905, when he introduced his special theory of relativity and showed how time changes with motion. The word relativity derives from the fact that the appearance of the world depends on the observer’s state of motion and is relative to the observer. Today scientists do not see problems of time or motion as absolute with single correct answers. Because time is relative to the speed an observer is traveling, there can never be a clock at the center of the universe to which everyone can set his or her watch. Einstein’s special theory of relativity tell us that an object traveling at high speeds ages more slowly than an object that is not traveling as fast. This means that if a person from Earth were to travel in outer space at a speed close to the speed of light (about 300,000 km per sec or about 186,000 mi per sec), that person could return to Earth thousands of years into Earth’s future.

Time is distorted in regions of large masses, such as stars and black holes. In Einstein’s general theory of relativity, which was introduced in 1916, the very existence of time depends on the presence of space. Einstein’s general theory explains how gravity warps and slows time and why time moves very slightly slower in regions of high gravity, such as near stars, compared to regions of lesser gravity, such as on planets. This time-slowing effect becomes pronounced in regions of extremely high gravity, such as near black holes." (I found this here.)

 

Time? It's something we shouldn't get hung up about.____________________________________________

"Grilled cheese sandwiches will save the world!"

 

Meagain,
yet there is no present without past or future, don't you agree?



Good to see you here again!