Hi I'd like to start a discussion about legitimacy of a "guru". I personally do not follow a guru, but am curious how others see guru crediblity. Some (but by no means all) modern gurus or spiritual teachers seem to do the following: 1) Write lots of books or make lots of videos or tapes saying much the same thing in different ways it seems 2) Charge a lot of money for people to see them 3) Copyright what they say as the "truth" in their books and websites 4) Have sex with several of their followers 5) Ramble on and on in clever metaphysical speak that is not particularly simple or clear or down to earth and practical for everyday living I do not believe Buddha or Jesus did these things or approached it this way. It is easy for anyone to claim to be enlightened or a spiritual master or a guru. Have I missed something? Thoughts anyone? Peace and love Jnanic
Its a sad fact of humanity, that people will claim they are this and that when in reality they are no better than the average man. Finding a real guru is similar to the search of a needle in a haystack. Its quite easy to tell that theyre false if theyre hungry for money and women.
In the Vajrayana the guru is expected to exemplify the Buddha's teachings, thus gurus, for us rich Westerners, who are not indentured, but who can pick and choose, we can search and choose gurus who help us see what Buddha teaches in living, breathing form. This is very helpful. For instance one of my Dzogchen lamas upon being asked about whether prophecies about world destruction would bear fruit said, "I don 't know anything about those things, I'm just a simple yogi." Clearly pointing out what is and isn't important. Clarity. A guru should clarify, and if one stays more confused or feels more lost through this association then ones guru is not a good one. The best guru is the most honest one. Thus they will downplay supernatural effects and tout compassion and helping others - seva. Gurus who play up the mystical and supernatural and easy to baffle others nonsense are bad gurus, those who place emphasis on the present and service are helping one generate better karma. These are good gurus. The best guru is totally generous and gives one all the truth all at once and holds nothing back. They are few and far between and include my late lama Kunzang, and Namkhai Norbu, and only a few others. IMHO May they live long.
That depends. If they make it clear that they like money and women, I don't really see a problem - I quite like both myself, and I'd be a bit uneasy about some guy in a loincloth who tells me that it will lead me to hell or whatever - The ones who claim to be pure as the driven snow and actually get up to all manner of tricks are the one's to avoid. Phoniness, deciet and hypocricy are far worse than sex or money. Without money and sex, how long would life continue?
there are good gurus. but you can't just accept a guru without really getting to know them. and you do have to have standards. personally, i'd never trust a guru who was attatched to money or sex. why would i want to learn how to be like every other person in america? i'd want someone who was more advanced than me, that's the whole point. money and sex aren't bad. when they replace real spiritual love of god, or love of whatever it is you value in your heart above everything else, and become worshipped, it ties you to your body. depending on your own personal goals, that can be good or bad. but i wouldn't want a guru like that. sex and money, along with things like drugs, meat eating, disrespect to others, arrogance... they open us up to impurities. and i mean that in that if we are preoccupied with them for the way they make us feel, we will be more likely to put aside our ethics and be unpredictable in our actions if the opportunity to get them immediately arises. if you're teaching me to be honest and faithful, but i have a beautiful wife or husband and you're attatched to sex, your desire will overcome your words and what you know in your heart. it'll push it aside. not to say those things are BAD, but if you have a guru, you're taking their word, holding them as an absolute authority. if you ask the same question every day, you want the same answer every day, no matter what the circumstances.
maybeto become a guru, people should cut off their penis so people can know they are a good guru.... women gurus can cut off the pleasure areas of their vagina this would solve all the problems
no, but the only legitimate guru would be humble, self effacing, and not persue gratification where there was none to be found. neither repressing nor trading a clear conscounse for the persuit of anything. nor claiming great wisdom nor to be a guru at all. but only harmlessly creating and exploring and passing on as honestly and unbiasedly as he or she could, what they had seen and found and constructed, in doing so. i don't believe in gurus who ask for money, nor to be worshipped, but there was one, totaly unarmed and all but naked, who marhed at the head of his fallowers, streight into the muzzels of hell, and somehow by doing so, or so the legend goes, liberated and created a nation, out from under the shadow of what was at the time, the most formidable and far reaching empire ever to exist on the face of this earth. oh yah, and he had a wife and he was certainly not celibate, (though he damd sure didn't spend his life chaising skirts and little green pieces of paper), and his decendents remain involved in the political life of that nation today. i doubt if i have to mention any names for most people to know who i'm talking about. though i'm sure at least a few fanatics will want to think i'm talking about their pet and not who i am. (and i'm just as sure, the tyrannts running this world today, would label him a 'terrorist', though he never, that i know of, advocated injuring anyone) =^^= .../\...
Onlyone...I quess your hate spewed over when you assumed with your mighty white intellect that blackbillblake is a black person huh?. I am sure that you are aware that there are forums out there that specifically welcome that ****** rhetorics of yours. I read some of your posts and think you are either in a mental hospital or should be on meds.
our culture is so weird about sex....its not the sex act that is impure in any way but the mindframe one enters the act with. celabasy is not a requirement for spirituallity, or enlightenment. neither is abstaning from money for that matter. really the sex act has the potential as the quickest way to trancendance ....or rather a pure and true love does. that is what tantra teaches, and as far as i know tantra is the most potent teachings on the planet at this time.....its method, not philosophy. an authentic guru is imposible to recognize if you dont undertand his teaching methods (not all teaching methods will work for everyone)....zen masters of old would often at random times viciously attack their followers. not out of anger, but because they knew that in the moment of fight or flight the mind stops.....and they wanted their followers to come to understand that state where the mind stops, and be at their center.
