zeitgeist movie

I'm not sure if that has been posted yet...I did a search and didn't find anything but then again I find the hipforums search to be quirky.

Part I of this movie is cool. It basically shows how the Bible is plagarized and the Christian religion is stolen from old Egyptian beliefs and the zodiac.

Enjoy!
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

 

oh yeah just to let you know Part one is nearly 40 minutes long so set aside some time. Also, there are some criticisms about this movie you should look into but it does raise an eyebrow. I enjoyed it

 

thanks...found it http://www.godawfultruth.net/

 

has anyone checked this out yet

 

All religions borrow something from other religions before them.

The spiritual truths themselves never change. Only the attempts at explaining them do.



x

 

well..borrowing and stealing are different lol. This is kind of blatant. Plagiarism.

 

That was very interesting and well made. I'm gonna check out the other parts, too.

 

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes this is a pathetic worm. Do your research, actually thousands have already for you. Almost everythign in the movie is completely false. No religion was anything like the story of Christ.... accept for Christ. The "source" of this information was from a midevil times study (hundreds of years AFTER Christ) and he has no sources. Its bollocks, and its pathetic that you believe it without doing your own research.

 

Actually, he sites all his sources on his website.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

 

His sources are shit. Before you all jump on the bandwagon for the movie, THINK for yourselves and use some common sense.

For example: Ra is the sun God of egypt, NOT Horus, horus was the god of the sky... hence, falcon head? Aside from that it makes claims that are preposterous to anyone who takes 5 seconds to critically think about it. Horus was crucified on December 25th? You think the ancient egyptians used the GRECIAN CALENDAR? Try again. Aside from the fact that crucifixion was not a common form of death until Roman times.

A link to another discussion about this:
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=247205

Just please, THINK. Don't just buy into someone else's propaganda. Some more items to consider:

Only westernized christianity celebrate christmas on Decemeber 25th, the fabricated day of Jesus' birth. The orthodox eastern churches celebrate it based on the old calendar which puts the date on varrying dates usually around January.

As a general rule you should distrust anything that claims "everyone is lying to you" for the obvious reason of the logical paradox it brings up...

By blindly agreeing with this movie your jumping out of the frying pan and into someone else's fire. Just use your own thoughts and common sense.

Also, as far as his sources go... check some of the ones on that list. SEVERAL are essays of opinion, without bibliographies of their own that he chooses to site as fact.

It's hysterical as well that the entire film is talking about how everything else is a lie and everyone is throwing propaganda at you, when the style of filming and editing drop this "documentary" right up there with "why we fight".

This is not to say you need to be christian or jewish or whatever religion you want to pick. It is simply a point of using some common sense. It's a shame how many people get wrapped up in western christianity and religions and just assume that's what a particular group is all about.

 

I see you're not semantically equipped to deal with someone who doesn't try to force their own beliefs at you.

Two independent things can certainly be false.

Though I don't recall beating the bible, or quoting a priest at any point in my post... Perhaps I should re-read it?

 

I kept thinking there was something wrong with Horus being the God of the Sun and I couldnt remember it was Ra. I watched this movie very receently, my boyfriend also made the comment that Krsna is not born from a virgin like they put in the movie.
I didnt think of it as a documentary, but a guy expressing his opinion and I think part I, though interesting hypothesis, is the weakest.

 

Yes Aura, Krishna may have been (as the story goes, of course)
born by Vishnu manifesting Himself within His mother, without
the father having sex with her, depedning on what you believe,
but the tradition says that Krishna was the 8th child, His mother
had six children and the 7th was a miscarriage. All of these
children, however, were killed upon being born because the King
feared the prophecy that Krishna was going to kill him. MUCH
different than the breif, barely explained claims made by this
movie Zeitgeist.

 

I'm sorry, it must have not been articulated well enough.

 

http://www.risenjesus.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=109

 

I'm gonna piss everybody off by saying you're all wrong. I haven't seen the Zeitgeist film, but from your reports there's a lot to be suspicious about. It sounds like it draws heavily on the work of Gerald Massey, Timothy Freke, and Peter Gandy, whose efforts to find extensive parallels between Horus and Jesus have been questioned by many other scholars. A better case can be made for some borrowing during the first few centuries of the Christian church, when Christians were competing with pagan mystery religions for a following in the Roman empire. The leading contenders were the imperial cult of Sol Invinctus, Mithraism (which had a strong following in the Roman army), and the cults of Attis and Isis (mother of Horus or Heru). Most of these celebrated December 25 as an important holiday. Why? Because at that time, it was considered the beginning of the winter solstice (now December 21 or 22), when the sun, though feeble, was still unconquered. Early Christians didn't originally celebrate Christ's birthday on December 25, because there was nothing in scripture telling when Christ was born. Some of them celebrated it on other days, and some didn't celebrate it at all. They began celebrating it on December 25 sometime around the 3rd century, to show the pagans that the Christian god was the creator of the sun, and his son was the light of the world. That's not particularly devastating to Christianity, because the date is conventional to begin with. There are other parallels among the religions, as well, and certainly some copying or "stealing" from each other by all of them. Some of the early Christian fathers had to explain why the pagans already had practices and beliefs that were similar to the Christians--the explanation being that Satan had established those things to confuse people. But claims that Christians did all of the copying are disputed by modern scholars, who think ideas of dying, resurrected savior gods and virgin births may have been stolen from the Christians by the others. Who's to know?

 

He has a point, man.

 

Ok, so now I've seen the movie and it's worse than I thought. Consider the sources. One of the biggies is Jordan Maxwell, aka Russell Pine, who has been charged by the FTC with conspiracy to defraud consumers involving marketing international driving permits over the internet, and phony credit repair and debt elimination programs. Would you buy a used car from this man? In addition to being charged with conspiracy, Maxwell is a conspiracy nut par excellence. He claims that the world has been ruled since ancient times by a secret society, the Illuminati (tied in with the international banking community and governments, of course) who practice ancient Caananite religious rites and use a "live long and prosper" Spock style gesture of recognition. The part of Zeitgiest(Part I) we've seen deals with pagan models for Jesus, but in Parts II and III we'll get the tie-ins among the Illuminati, the Federal Reserve Bank, and 9-11. We also have S. Archaya, aka. D.M. Murdock (why do these people always have aliases), who apparently relies mainly on the work of the (very) late poet turned Egyptologist, Gerald Massey, who died in 1927. By modern standards, Massey's methodology is somewhat "loose". For example, his allegation that the Egyptian god Horus had twelve disciples appears to be based on a picture of twelve reapers on a mural near a depiction of Horus with no other connection between them. His allegation about the Egyptian god walking on water like Jesus is based on the story of a different supernatural being, a fish man, Annanes, who regularly emerged from the sea during the day and went back at night. Close enough? What about the virgin birth of Horus? The legend goes that the goddess Isis was impregnated by the penis of Horus' dad, Osiris. This was a miraculus event, considering that Osiris was dead at the time, but not quite a virgin conception. Horus' earthly father is said to be Seb (sounds like Joseph?), but actually Seb was Horus' grandfather, and he was "earthly" in the sense that he was god of the earth. Contrary to Massey, Horus didn't give any sermon on a mount and wasn't crucified between two thieves. He was fed to crocodiles. I could go on, but I think you get the idea. It's easy to find parallels if you make them up.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Maxwell

A lot of those claims of similarity have bitten the dust under scholarly scrutiny (R. Nash, The Gospels and the Greeks), much like the Horus one. For example, the Buddha's alleged virgin birth when his mother, already married and not really a virgin at the time, was impregnated though her rib cage by a white elephant (ouch!)while she slept. Was that virgin birth or rape by elephant? The claims that miracles of the Christian religion were stolen from other religions got their start in Frazer's The Golden Bough in 1890, followed by scads of others. Those books, in turn, became a target for historians (and Christians), with the scholarly tide lately running against Frazer, Massey,et al., with the important exception of T.N.D. Mettinger, The Riddle of Resurrection. But I'm not convinced either way.

Much of the argument has to do with who stole what from whom first, and what counts as virgin birth, walking on water, resurrection,etc. When Osiris was cut into pieces by Seth and restored to animation by Isis, was that resurrection? Scholars who say No point out that after the experience Osiris stayed in the land of the dead to become judge of the dead, unlike Jesus, who returned to earth for a brief reappearance before going to heaven to judge the living and the dead. Is that a significant difference? The Sun God Mithra was originally said to have been born from a rock, but later legends gave him virgin birth. The earliest records of these later legends are from the mid- second century A.D., raising the possibility that Mithraism stole the idea from Christians. The followers of Attis ripped everybody off, especially Mithra, down to his characteristic shepherd's cap.

There's also the possibility of different cultures coming to similar results independently. Some of the legends about Toltec-Aztec-Maya gods involve themes of sacrifice and renewal. Quetzalcoatl resurrected the human race by shedding his blood (not all of it). Xipe Totec (god of agriculture) gave his skin to sustain humanity. Every spring the priests would wrap themselves in the flayed skins of captives. The skins would dry and burst, symbolizing ribirth of humanity and nature. Nobody thinks there was any contact between the Meso-Americans and Christians at the time. These patterns reflect basic cycles of nature or may be, as Jung thought, part of our collective unconscious.

 

for all the wrong facts in the movie, theres just as many right facts for religion to deny.