Your thoughts on divorce.

Yep!

 

LOL It reminds me of Gun N Roses song..I use to love her.

 

If you truly felt that way, you wouldn't have shared your situation.


Thank you all so far for your responses. This is my favorite thread I've ever created. You're all wonderful for sharing what you've shared. Thank you.

 

painful thing
but most often the only way-out...

the easiest and best thing is no getting married
then no divorce would follow

 

Just because you don't have a wedding doesn't mean you will never have a painful breakup. Kids can still be involved AND the courts if you've been living together.
Too many people seem to think that if they never sign that "piece of paper" (as I always hear marriage referred to as), then they won't get emotionally or financially hurt....WRONG

 

why get married to begin with.

 

well, my parents divorced. it was really hard, but not as hard as some. my dad was REALLY abusive. the funny thing is, my stepfather is, too. we learned to get around it, though. i love my family very much. i don't give most marriages much chance of surviving. people are getting married too soon and for all the wrong reasons. dave's mother has been married 4 times. she once told me that she believes in getting married to live with someone. apparently she doesnt believe in STAYING married, though. but her children are good, loyal, loving and very sensible people. i think my parents situations have given me the same attitude. dave and i are working together to raise our children. whatever happens to them once their out of the house is going to be about their decisions. if they marry and divorce, it's not big shit to me. i'll love them anyway.

 

touche! i have to admit that you have made a good point.

so perhaps i should clarify a bit and draw the line between the sharing of experiences for consideration, and reflection upon one's own situation, and the passing of judgement: "you should, you shouldn't, etc." you can judge your own situation, and sometimes listening to the experiences of others helps you clarify that.

for example, i am hearing lots of stories here from people whose family went through divorce due to physical violence. there was dysfunctional/abusive behavior in my last marriage, the decision to divorce was due in part to prevent that from escalating into physical violence. a change needed to happen, unfortunately in a situation like that change requires two people. suresh chose not to go to counselling even after years of my asking and seeking counselling himself, and the marriage inevitably ended.

however, i can see here, and in listening to friends' divorce court horror stories, that while in our marriage i was committed to peaceful change, in the divorce (and i can't tell you how it pains me to admit this) it has actually been suresh's behavior rather than mine that is more committed to peace, for when threats to go to court do arise, it is usually me who is the one making them. and that's not to say that out-of-court divorce is a contest of who is more peaceful, either. just that my attention is drawn to an area where i can imporove in my efforts to divorce peacefully.

does that make it ok for him to use violent communication with the children, forget their coats in cold weather, or neglect their healthcare needs? no, it does not. but when we agreed that the marriage could not be saved we also agreed that the issues of childcare and custody would be dealt with peacefully between us and out of court so that the kids would not feel like ropes in a tug-of-war. the relationship between us failed but we both consistently reaffirm committment to the kids. although i often feel he's not listening to me, threatening to go to court rather than finding a way to express my and the kids' needs that he might be more receptive towards, and reframing my own thinking about his drastically different parenting style is not meeting that committment.

again, i'm not talking about letting him get away with this or that or trying to "win" what i feel "entitled" to. i'm talking about thinking about the conflicts in a way that acknowledges everybody's needs. it wouldn't meet the kids' needs if i sued him and took 3/4 of his paycheck in alimony & child support, for example, as much as it would if we sat down and addressed the needs that child support and alimony are supposed to cover and find a solution that works for all of us. the marriage may be sundered, but somehow we still need to find a way of being a family, even if its a divided one.

i am grateful, as much as my ex drives me crazy and i would love to indulge in the luxury of visualizing him as a selfish, evil, controling jerk ("I-It" rahter than "I-Thou") I do have to acknowledge that I am very, very fortunate that he is willing to cooperate towards a peaceful divorce, even though he doesn't always do things the way I think he should.

so in regards to my previous statement about it being no one else's business, I do have to admit that hearing other people's experiences related here have made me more aware of my own situation. hopefully others can learn more about whatever their situations are by reading mine.

 

Over time and through a combination of losing his career as an airline pilot, and losing his dad and his sister to cancer, my dad gradually began to change from an amazing, motivated man into a hopeless, jobless, alcoholic mental-case. My mom worked hard from the time I was 5 to keep things together, supporting the family and trying to help my dad get back on track. She tried everything to help him but he's the most stubborn man in the world and nothing would get through to him. This went on for my entire childhood, so no one can say my mom didn't try. Unfortunately, nothing she did and nothing she could have done would have worked because it takes two people to make a marriage work.

After 35 years of marriage, having lived from Puerto Rico to California, after raising three children and having many wonderful years together, they divorced. She could no longer be his crutch. She didn't divorce the amazing man that she had married when she was 23, she divorced a man who had allowed himself to get so far out of touch that he was more like a stranger. In a way, she had kept her vows of "Till death do we part" because the man she had originally married had, in a sense, died. People can change so much throughout life and there's no way to predict how, so I'm amazed at how many marriages do last.

I don't think either one of them will ever stop loving eachother, and despite what had to be, they're both grateful for the life that they did have together.

 

If I ever get married and then end up divorcing, I would feel as if I failed, both as a woman and as a partner. Once I get married, I am sure its going to be forever.
But maybe I am just being too idealistic...

 

Sorry, Elle.

My parents got divorced when I was six, and as my mom explained, he had no desire to be tied down by anyone. I'm afraid I may have the same disease.

 

lace and feet, thanks for sharing that story. it gives me hope that it is possible to have a peaceful, loving divorce when a peaceful, loving marriage has not been. change is not a "failure" if it's healthy and genuine.


it's just not possible to change another person, however we may love them. and when we have a genuine need to grow and change and our partner feels so threatened by that change they become verbally, emotionally or physically abusive in order to stop it; when they become rigidly resistant to any hope of changing their own thinking so they no longer feel threatened by their partner's growth to the point where they'd rather see the relationship die than meet the other half-way; when the relationship has crystalized and is based entirely on compensating for lacks rather than coming together in wholeness, well, there's not much you can do about that, either. A relation that is based on partners compensating for one anothers brokenness will necessarily require both partners, and therefore the relationship, to be broken and not whole. if the basis of the relationship cannot shift to a healthier focus, it is doomed.

and when i speak of change, i'm not talking about "oh i'm bored with being a housewife, i want to take up scuba diving", i'm talking about "living this way is truly hurting me and the family and becoming unbearable". divorce opponents point to "sacrifice" as a magic solution for saving marriages, and wholesome, healthy relationships do require sacrifice. however, that sacrifice should be in terms of setting aside ego to build awareness, not sacrificing truth and self to deny dysfunction. the idealized, ego-driven fantasy of the faithful, martyr housewife who suffers alone letting the family thrive is a falacy. a family is a network of relationships. when one is suffering, all will be affected.

like the flaming chalice in a UU service reminds us, healthy sacrifice is of effort and attention, not of honesty and wholeness. sacrifice should create light to heal by, not denial to ignore wounds and pain. sacrificing honesty and wholeness cannot create a realtionship of honesty and wholeness, it can only draw the blindfold tighter around the relationship's truth.

the wholesome and healing thing sometimes really is to walk away. but we can walk away in a loving and responsible manner.

 

Eli Eli, Lama Sabactami?

 

my mother and my stepfather never had a wedding. but they were labelled as married as they were "common law" married, ie had lived together as romantic partners for over 2 years

 

What...?

 

You're welcome. You make excellent points about healthy relationships.

 

I believe that divorce is the right answer in some cases. My parents divorced when I was 4 because my father was an abusive alcoholic. My parents also remarried when I was 7 because my father grew up. I think some people get married for the wrong reasons, and others think marraige will be something it's not. To me divorce needs to be the last resort.

 

It's a solution to get out of an unpleasant situation. If there are misunderstandings, better separate. Doesn't matter who is gossiping what. Life is too short to be wasted.

 

I think more thought needs to be done by all who think marriage is what they want

 

thanks. unfortunately my views on healthy relationships are probably why i'm not dating now.