Win My Soul!

Time and time again I have destroyed the pale, weak arguments of the Christians and some others through such threads as :

God Is Love?
Proof Texts...
so..........

and a few others that I can't recall right off hand.

With the typical responses being:

You're Going To Hell
You Can't Prove There Isn't A God (argumentum ad ignorantium)
Those Weren't REAL Christians
Here's What Jesus REALLY meant
You're taking it OUT OF CONTEXT (one of my favorites since I was educated in Biblical Studies ...ha ha...)
We just can't explain it, but we KNOW it (just can't tell me even HOW they KNOW it)
It's In My Heart (no it's in your mind, your heart just pumps blood)
You'll Understand (or Find Out) One Day
Pray

Ok, I am a rational, compassionate and open-minded person. I have changed my viewpoints on both minor and major issues. I can change. I can be persuaded. However, it takes evidence more compelling than the doubt I have to do so.

I offer any Christian (or anyone) the priviledge of winning my soul. This is NOT a joke!

Discussing with me may turn into a debate but with me you will never be called a name, I will be very candid (if I think something is bullshit, I will say it, until convinced otherwise--and I CAN be convinced otherwise...obviously I went from a Christian to an Atheist in three years. I went from a Social Conservative to Social LIBERTINE in a few years. My mind is compelled by REASON AND EVIDENCE.

So, the door to my "soul" is open...TRULY....but first you'll have to convince me I even have a soul.

Good luck!!

The winner will receive my undying gratitude, friendship and loyalty. And I do not give that away easily.

The challenge is on.

 

If you're really challenging us to "win your soul" then you're already telling us that you are going to make it really difficult and that your wall is very hard to penetrate. Humility is the only thing that will open the door to your heart. Realizing and admitting that we are all sinners in need of a saviour is another good step. Sorry but we cannot give you any evidence that you can hold in your hands or see with your eyes, other than the inward and outward transformation of those who have truly fallen in love with jesus and accepted Him into thier hearts. Christianity is based on faith, the evidence of things UNSEEN. You shouldnt be asking US to win your soul, you should be asking GOd if He's real, and to reveal Himself to you. Sound scary? Well you have challenged us Believers, and I challenge you. If your Heart is really as open as you say it is, ask God to prove Himself to you. It might not be an immediate answer, because GOd's ways are not our ways, but I promise you He will give you the answer you are looking for...or maybe the answer you weren't looking for. Keep seeking!

 

If I win can I opt for the cash value?

 

Lmao, that's my favorite.
Also works with communism.. "But they weren't real communists!"

 

Hello, Libertine
Daniel here. In winning souls, it is always the spirit that accomplishes the goal. These people will never win your soul. As an individual, I am like you in my zeal toward reason. You know, Doubting Thomas wanted proof, and it was provided. I went through a stage as a young man where I attempted to prove the Bible wrong, but it only made me a stronger believer. Ask yourself this question: when Saul of Tarsus looked into a mirror, was there ever the possibility that he saw the Christian within?

 

i dunno if i want it. does it pay off over time? what tricks can it do? can it vibrate AND mow the lawn? that would rock.

 

Define "God".

 

I just spent a half hour typing out a response and my puter crashed


So I will pm you later ok?

 

I like most of this response.

The state of world today, demands an end to the bickering over the details which can not be proven or disproven. It should be more and more self evident that harmonious conduct among each other, equates to striving to follow the Ten Commandments(ten great ideas) and the Golden Rule, which is at the heart of Jesus's teaching.

 

Ok, let me make it clear.

I am looking for convincing evidence that would lead me to possibly consider the concept of Christianity.

No vague speeches, please. Just precise and reasonable points and/or facts.

Really...is that too hard to ask?:H

 

convincing evidence...hmm

ok we might be able to drum some of that up for you dude, but please keep in mind that none of it can penetrate if you dont let your wall down.

http://www.rbc.org/rtb/

http://www.fillthevoid.org/Apologetics/Apologeticspage.html

http://www.godandscience.org/

these sites could be helpful for you.

 

Have you read visited my personal site about Woodstock and Dead Sea Scroll Connections www.woodstockanddeadseascrolls.net or have you read my threads 'psychedelic drug pushers' or 'The Axis of Evil Bush Did Not Talk About'?

 

Read all my posts and threads...

 

Ok, we'll begin with a simple enough subject. I took your first website and saw the "10 reasons to believe in the existence of God" : (below are the concise arguments in italics and my responses in plain font.

1- Everyone believes in something. No one can endure the stress and cares of life without faith in something that cannot ultimately be proven. Atheists cannot prove there is no God.

Ok, everyone believes in something. Right! But, there are reasons why people believe in certain things. For instance, if I get into a car and tell you we are going to LA, you can believe me based on a reasonable assessment of the evidence: You see the signs, I am driving in the right direction, etc. However, suppose you got in my car and I said, "Hold on! We're going to the moon!" Would you believe it? There is no evidence to support it. I am just asking you to believe regardless or even CONTRARY to the evidence.
Secondly, atheists do not need to "prove no God". That is a universal negative. You cannot prove there is no invisible, intangible trolls running around in your brain. You cannot prove that I am not God. You can only make a reasonable assessment of the facts you do have. Lack of evidence doesn't need equal evidence for the opposing viewpoint. That is a logical fallacy called "argument from ignorance" : Because I can't explain it, God did it! Etc...

2- Scientific method is limited to a process defined by that which is measurable and repeatable. By definition, it cannot speak to issues of ultimate origin, meaning, or morality.

Fair enough. However, science is not meant to speak for morality. It is meant to tell us about the way things work. And contrary, science can use the process of elimination and help us aquire a reasonable assessment of origins of many things.

3- Many feel compelled to acknowledge the possibility or even likelihood of an intelligent designer who provided the ingredients for life and set in motion the laws by which it developed.

So? Many feel compelled not to. And if so, where did this "designer" originate? If the universe is so complex it could not have evolved, the designer must be much more complex...so....?

4- Mankind has been described as incurably religious.

That's ashamed. Basically this argues that no true morality is possible without religion. That's a sham. We don't need an invisible man in the sky to promote a compassion for our fellow man. We just need to realize that a society of murderers and robbers would not last very long and most people treat others with the proper respect because they, themselves, want to be treated with it. It's called common sense.

5-The God of the Bible rests His case on events witnessed in real time and locations. Anyone who doubted the claims could visit real places and people to check out the evidence for themselves.

So? Many works of fiction use real names, real places and real events. This proves nothing. I am real. I have a real house. Would you believe I can walk clean through it with no tricks? Would you believe I can lift it with my pinky? I doubt it. Just because somethings are real in the Bible doesn't mean the whole thing is true.

That's enough for now, I'll tackle the other 5 later on today.

 

and what about my challenge to you? Why did that go completely ignored? You didnt even acknowledge it, but the very thing you overlooked could be the only thing you need to do. Rather than arguing with us, why dont you take it up with God? Like God said in the Bible,

"The message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Co 1:18

It WILL NOT MAKE SENSE TO YOU unless you get in GOd's face about it and let Him communicate with you. He is the only one who can convince you, not us. We can prepare the patient, but God is the one who does the actual Heart surgery.

We dont have to become something else for God to accept us, He accepts us right where we are. But He loves us too much to leave us that way!

 

I was under the impression I was taking up your challenge by visiting your websites one at a time, reading what they say and responding.

Now you go all apeshit on me and tell me to take it up with something that I doubt exists in the first place! Don't tell me to ask "God" things, when I am asking YOU to give me a reason to believe there even IS a god in the first place. THAT is foolishness. And don't quote Bible at me--that proves NOTHING to me. I will continue to read and response (either positively or negatively) to your website's "evidence".

Or have you given up on the challenge already? I certainly hope not. At least you have provided some arguments -- unlike some others. Don't turn into one of them! We have enough of those already.

Again, telling me to question something we are discussing the very existence of...your websites are interesting. This PREACHING is not!

Again...more preaching. STICK TO YOUR PREVIOUS WAY OF DEALING WITH THIS...offer evidence like you did in your first post--no more preaching!!!

 

Just like you don't believe in GOd (which i find hard to believe if you used to be a Christian) and think He can do nothing for you, I DO believe in GOd, and that He can do far beyond what any of us can think or imagine. So dont be surprised if my answers are "preachy" I'm not trying to preach, i am giving my views, just like you are.


My challenge to you was to take it up with God. Reading my sites i provided is cool, but my challenge still remains...none of us can see you, so why dont you humble yourself just for a few minutes, close your bedroom door behind you and ask GOd if He's real? Even if it sounds totally rediculous. No harm can come from it, and what do you have to lose? Your pride? Hey that's a great thing to lose! It opens alot of doors!

Christians will always quote scripture. It's what we do, mainly because we find truth and life in its pages. It's God's love letter to human beings and if someone wants to know more about GOd or Jesus on any level, it's the best book to open.

Dude, you ask me to help you but my methods have to be confined to your rules. You cant challenge us to "win your soul" and then put us in a box and scold us if we're not doing it YOUR WAY. Open your mind, man. Open your heart!

 

Well, I was a Christian. And a Christian teacher as well. But, the more I studied philosophy and the "other side" without the filter of Christianity, the more I realized I was missing out by thinking through that filter. You have a right to preach, but I have a right to not hear it. I don't like preaching. I like discussing and sharing. You shared with me, I thank you. But, don't preach at me, because that just turns me completely off. Thank you.

Will you go in your room and ask Casper the Friendly Ghost if he is real? Seriously, what about Allah or Zeus? Thus, why should I go into my room and talk to myself without using any kind of rationale and questioning through investigation of such claims that there even IS a "god"? And that it is the bible god?

It's not about pride. It's about seeking truth and answers. I can talk to myself all day long, but research and sharing ideas through a network of people I find to be more convincing to TRULY persuade.

Sure, if I try to "believe" and talk myself into it, my emotions may overcome me and I'll "just believe" regardless of the evidence. But, I am not that way. I do not govern via emotion only, but through reason. Otherwise, I'd have already been in or started a cult.

Well, you may quote it and believe it, but I don't. I need more evidence before I just accept the "Bible" as evidence.

You provided links. That is good. I salute that! Many people just want to damn me or preach at me. You are not "in a box". I am just asking for evidence enough to make a reasonable assessment. That's just common sense. My mind IS open, man. My heart is an organ that pumps blood. So, you must be referring to my "emotions" and even though I have them, they are not sufficient in and of themselves to provide evidence for OBJECTIVE TRUTH.

Btw, I appreciate your taking up my challenge, really. Most Christians just think I am joking around, but I'm not. I am serious. I can be changed, but it's not going to be as easy as saying "just believe". And I appreciate your links, and your efforts. Even if you don't "win" me, you have won my respect.

 

I wouldn't want to win your soul. Not that it's bad. Just you rule and you should keep doing what you're doing. Flattery will get me nowhere, my friend.

My personal viewpoint is that your identity now is your soul and that you lose personal identity, soul, at death. Nothingness is totally unimaginable. Everything we know about death can truly be said, as far as we'll ever know, to exist in the imagination. That's obvious, right? Therefore, as far as you'll ever know, and what can be tested, is that it is imaginary. It can't be experienced as a real thing, by default.

I think I can prove to you that life is eternal. Or at least confuse you with a lot of ranting and raving.

Universe is defined as everything in the universe regarded as a whole, and that includes you. So literally, you are the universe, regarded as a whole, and vice versa. Therefore what describes you also describes the universe; therefore the universe is a living entity. That doesn't prove you have a soul, per say (?), but it does prove that you, the universe, will continue to exist after you, Libertine, die.

What else...

How about this:

1. It is possible that an omniscient God exists.
2. Therefore, anything that can't possibly be known to exist does not exist.
3. Therefore, in the absence of life, nothing exists.

That confuses me, even, and I'm really stupid. Hope your soul's okay. Peace out.

 

thankyou for your respect, Libertine.

I'm sure you've heard the phrase: "You dont have to understand to believe, you have to believe to understand." Not even the strongest, most faithful follower fo Christ will never understand God completely, we are incapable of that.

I am beginning to think that this thread is about you, and that is cool. If you were a Christian in the past, and even a Christian teacher as you say, then at one time you had already recieved the evidence to convince you. What evidence was that then? And why is it inadequate now?

It's good to use your intellect, after all, God gave it to you because He did not create us as puppets or programmed robots (another well known line, i know) and wanted us to seek truth because we really want to from our own free will. But dont be all head and no heart. If your thoughts and analizing everything are working over time, you are not allowing yourself to receive what you might need. Breathe...think about when you felt close to God. If you truly want your sould to be won, it will happen.

Yah i know your heart pumps blood, let's not be silly, you know what i mean when i say heart. Like i tell my kids, we have 2 hearts, the one that pumps blood, and the other one that loves.

You're probably aware of the scripture that says many believers will fall away in the last days. I dont know how a person goes from a believer to a non believer, it baffles me.