Why are self-confident women written off as bitches by most men?

Discussion in 'Women's Issues' started by anonymousgurl21, May 24, 2006.

  1. it is a woman's right to change her mind. best wishes to all.
     
  2. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

    Oh honey, the feminist movement just allowed us to go to work...before the feminist movement some employers wouldn't even employ women. We still don't get paid the same, we still don't get adequate childcare for working mothers, we still don't get the same rights as men do. Sadly, we never will...not in my lifetime at least.

    I've taken several women's issues classes in college and I can tell you that most women don't see our standing as a PROBLEM. If you don't see a problem, how can you fix it?

    The feminist movement isn't over...in fact, it's basically just begun. There are so many rights that we are going to have to fight for...and let me tell you, it's not going to be easy.

    Women, in the past, have been thought of as the "givers" of life, while men have been the "riskers" of life. Historically, the only role women played in war was as nurses (givers of a second chance at life). Based on a theory by a feminist (forget her name, forgive me), what separates us from animals is the "risking" of lives for others. Animals typically won't do that. Western culture has a particular obsession with violence and death...therefore, these qualities are held in high regards. It's a complicated issue and if you have an opportunity to take a woman's issues class in college I suggest you do. Things will start falling into place for you.

    Men are intimidated by strong women, specifically immature ones, because it makes them question their manhood. It's not a bad thing, men just don't like it.

    We live in a world where everything is of masculine quality. Language itself is a part of our patriarchal society. Think of it this way, who is better at reading people based on body language and facial expressions (regardless of words that are said)? Women, right? Isn't it true we have to spell everything out for a man? That's got to say something, right?

    If you have any questions or suggested readings PM me...I'm happy to chat with you about this...I've struggled with this in the past and just now kind of figuring out what's going on. :) Smile and talk with people with like minds...it helps.
     
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  5. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

    It's important to look at this from a "freedom" standpoint. What are women's wants, needs and desires? Being able to attain these is what freedom is all about. Now, you have to understand. Men and women's needs are different. In reality, we don't want the SAME things as men...we don't DESIRE the same things as men...our BASIC wants are the same...but some of these have nothing to do with gender.

    What the feminist movement SHOULD be doing is something the African-American men and women did in the late 1800's. They set a goal, created their own histories and their own futures, not trying to attain the same things as the white men were attaining. That's not what they WANTED. Women need to define their goals, wants, and desires and begin setting forth on their quest to their OWN standards, not the white man's standards. I think that's where the women's movement went wrong in the past and what we should be doing differently in the present.
     
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  7. DQ Veg

    DQ Veg JUSTYNA'S TIGER

    Well, I'd like to say a few things. As a guy, I am not in the least intimidated by intelligent or capable women. I prefer those types of women.The women that were the two loves in my life-one was a doctor, and the other was a chemical engineer. They were both foreigners. They were both very feminine and gentle, and at the same time very intelligent and capable. There are many women today-mainly Western- however, that obviously believe that those two things-intelligence/capability and femininity don't really go together. Don't get me wrong-I'm not saying all of them, but there are very many that obviously feel that way. In order to be in a position that requires them to be capable and use their intelligence, many of them seem to think that they have to have a rough and abrasive demeanor that makes a lot of them, in my opinion, even more manly than the men that they're around, and ruins their personality. I think that's very unfortunate, but I see it all around me, and I'm not the only one who does. I can't really comment on what you experienced in your claesses or the attitudes of the professors toward different things-that's a rather complex issue. I don't think that for women to be succesful or intelligent that they need to carry a banner or join a movement, or embrace a certain kind of ideology. The women in my life that I referred to above came from foreign countries where these things were not even issues-if a woman was intelligent, wanted to go to college and succeed, she simply did it, without all this complicated baggage of ideology, feminist and otherwise, that a lot of Western women seem to believe is necessary for them to be succesful. Men and women today interact constantly on a professional and educational level-professional schools are full of women today, in many of them they even constitute a majority. I think we all need to relax and enjoy being who we are, and not worry so much about whether someone in a given profession is male or female, and what that entails, and just be ourselves.
     
  8. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

    As a man, you can't possibly understand the glass ceiling women experience, specifically in the work place. It's been proven time and time again that women will get paid less than a man in the same job with the same experience. Women aren't given the same respect in the work place. And not only that, but what about the woman with children? What if she's a single mom? Does she throw her kids in childcare while she works or what? What if the dad's a deadbeat? What choice does the woman have then? She's given no help or assitance in most cases.
     
  9. steffan

    steffan puffin

    if its just the woman there saying these things about than you have a point. But many profs like to point the idiosynrcasies of famous writers, poe was obsesive, frost had issues about death, etc.. maybe its becouse they like to think know these little things about them, maybe its jelousy, who knows. but the fact is those labels do fit some of those writers, and you are studieing them in collage, thats got to account for something.
    as far as strong woman go alot of men prefer them, as long as they are also secure in there egos and dont act bossy. Often not the case however, there about as unpleasent to be around as guys who act that way.
    if plath writing today she would win the pulitzer, she was an amazing talent
     
  10. DQ Veg

    DQ Veg JUSTYNA'S TIGER

    Well, the women that I was with did not experience the type of discrimination that you're describing-they were paid as much or more than the men that were their colleagues, and were highly respected in their fields by men and women alike, as were the women they worked with. Being a man doesn't make me oblivious to what women experience. Far from it. There's no doubt that there's discrimination against women in certain areas, and there's discrimination against men too, for that matter. But I've also known enough professional women and interacted with them professionally to see clearly that women in the professional world aren't all locked in the closet. I haven't just studied statistics or read books about the subject-I've been out there working with them. The city I live in is full of women in every conceivable field, and they do quite well for themselves in areas that were all-male not all that long ago. I was primarily responding, though, to the original question of the thread, and trying to give some of my insight on that. Actually, to say that I can't understand the plight of women because I am a man is discriminatory itself.
     
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  12. DQ Veg

    DQ Veg JUSTYNA'S TIGER

    Well, again, the professional women I've known (and I've know a lot of them) had both family AND career, and balanced them quite nicely-I mean, they weren't celibates, after all.....
     
  13. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

    Read some literature and talk to real single women trying to support a child/children.

    You don't know the plight of these women because you aren't them. White men don't get discriminated against, sorry, try again. Unless you've studied women's issues and feminism as a man, you won't recognize some of these issues that we deal with on a daily basis.

    Jenny's right...why do WE have to choose family or career? Why don't men ever have to make that decision? Because it's a woman's "job" right?

    Yeah, that's what I thought...
     
  14. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

    Bet they were married, too, huh?
     
  15. deliberate deletion (by author)
     
  16. DQ Veg

    DQ Veg JUSTYNA'S TIGER

    Well, they weren't all married, and I know a number of single fathers that are having to raise their kids under quite a bit of hardship, who were abandoned, kids and all, by their wives. Besides, once a woman is in a professional career and makes a sufficient income to be able to be able to pay for child care, maybe private education etc., then it's easier to take care of their kids even if a man isn't around to help them. I think it's a shame that so many families break up today-I'm just talking about the monetary aspect of it.
     
  17. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

    Well, it's not all about money when it comes to feminism, it has to do with the way were are viewed in society and the opportunities we aren't able to experience because of these views.

    So basically women have to decide whether they stay home and or have a career, then they have to decide, well, if I want to have a career and support myself, then I guess I have to have someone else raise my children...that's the bad part of it all...men RARELY ever have to make that decision...
     
  18. DQ Veg

    DQ Veg JUSTYNA'S TIGER

    Look, you know, men raise kids too. A man's kids are just as much his as the woman's, and if he has to work all day then someone's going to be taking care of them during that time, his wife or someone else. Most men I know are just as attached to their kids as women are. And, that's just the reality of working. You can't do two things at once-that goes for men and women equally. You can't be at work and take care of your kids at the same time. I've known professional women that only saw their kids a couple of hours a day, or less than that, before they got tucked in bed, and their fathers didn't see them any more often than that, either. I was always amazed at how intelligent and well-adjusted those kids grew up to be, though. In an ideal world, though, I wouldn't want my kids growing up like that. Those are just the realities of the modern work world, which I admit are unfortunate, and the trade-offs that have to be made.
     
  19. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

    But USUALLY, more often than not, the men just work...they don't question whether or not they should work or stay home with the kids like women have to. And you know how society here in the United States who view women who stay home with the kids? Submissive. DO you know what they call women who put their kids in childcare and go to work? Uncaring, cold mothers.

    It's a catch-22 women have to live with...
     
  20. yes, you are right. men raise children too ( even though they are among a minority). but why should somebody like ted hughes ( a mediocre poet at best) be called a poet laureate, while a woman with so much more skill and talent, merely get a pulitzer? and twenty years after her death? what does that tell you. honestly?

    jenny
     

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