...is the name of an article I just found on Sojourners website: www.sojo.net I copied and pasted the end here and bolded some statements (because even I get impatient and often don't read posts that are superlong on here.) I wish that right-wing fundamentalist Christians didn't have our president as the figurehead of their agendas. aka I still can't believe that GDubs is actually our president. How did it happen? I feel like fundamentalism in all religions has become an insurmountable force, and believers like me, or Jim Wallis, and many other people out there cannot get their voices to be heard. ....one day at a time.... Enjoy...and peace Admittedly, Christians of good faith part paths when political conflict leads us to consider what constitutes a just and righteous war - or if any war can be just. Though we may not consent on the means, we do consent on the need to confront the spread of evil in the world. Yet we can all affirm scripture when it says, "Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.... Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good" (Romans 12:17, 21). When we confront evil with its own means, those means mark our own character. In that regard, the practice of torture so fully embraces evil it dehumanizes both the torturer and its victim. No just cause can be won if it relies on torture to succeed. Democracy and freedom cannot result from a war fueled by torture, which is why so many Americans were shocked and angered by the disturbing incidents that took place at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. All the more so, Christians must oppose torture under any circumstances. Consider this: Who would Jesus torture? I cannot imagine Jesus finding a single "exemption" that would justify such an abuse of any individual made in God's image. Though I bristle whenever I hear someone refer to the United States as a Christian nation - it is such a loaded phrase - many in the Muslim world see us as such. How tragic it would be for Muslims to identify the message and mission of Jesus with torture and terror. We must not allow that to happen.
That's right on. The fact that the Bush Administration says "The United States do not torture" but refuses to outlaw it really worries me. Not only does it not yield good intelligence, but for a supposed Christian, Bush, and probably most of his staff, sure do not display true Christian motives. Jesus says do not repay evil with evil? Well, war is murder, rape and pillage. Thus, war is evil and cannot be otherwise. The fact that Bush chose to go to war, indeed he pushed hard for it and would have done it unilaterally even, proves that this man is a huge hypocrite. Only good means can acheive a good end.
TrippinBTM yeah....I shouldn't make Bush into a figurehead either...because I know it's not just him. The problem is not just one man. He has an administration of people that agree with him, support him and back him up. And it's not like "the whole government" is corrupt. It's more difficult than that. I just get so frustrated when I feel like I'm working hard out there in the world, and then I turn on the radio and in one second, George Bush or Pat Robertson tears down everything I just built. Robertson condemned "the town of Dover PA" because they voted schoolboard members off who wanted to institute Intelligent Design into the curriculum. He said that God wont answer their prayers if there is a disaster there. How dare he cast judgment and speak for God! I'm glad that there is a move to demand a timeline for the end of this war. It's true: Americans are tired of hearing Bush say the same thing over and over: "We;re staying in Iraq until our work is done." People want to know when that will be. You know what I want to know? How much further away is 2008 so we can swear in a new president? Whew. I'm done. I'm a little frazzled today with certain Americans. Namely GWB and Pat Robertson. peace
Well, they ARE all corrupt. It's just that their corruption does not all go the same way, so they aren't working all together. And thank god! Anyways, I share your frustration with people like them. As if Robertson has any clue what God is, let alone can speak for him...it's laughable. These people are all evil as hell. Notice how Roberston and company are like the high priests Bush uses to legitimize his rule and decisions? It's no different from what ancient kings did. It's all just a pack of lies, and it's so terrible because not only are these people's lives, whole fucking countries we're talking about being attacked and ruined, but they use religion to justify it, which is the highest of evils.
I don't think religions are evil. I think separation from God is evil, and people within religions, and outside of, are in separation from God..sometimes even when they think they have a "good" relationship with God. I would love to sit down with George W and talk theology.. I bet that Jesus would roll over in his grave hearing that conversation...if there was a body to roll over. wow this is gruesome. I think I'm done
Jesus isnt in a grave, for he hath risen. Even had he not, it would be more accurate to say rolled over in his tomb =P Sorry, just felt like being a jestful dickhead lol carry on.
Perhaps the Iraqi war should be over by now and definitely torture should not be taking place. However I would still argue that the war is just. The american death toll is over 2,000 now but how many have been killed by Saddam?
We didnt start a war with Cambodia when Pol Pot was doing his thing. How many people have different warlords in Ethiopia killed? How many people has any world dictator killed? OH WAIT Saddam has the oil....my bad, mass murder in oil rich countries is more punishable.
I didn't mean that. I was talking about using religion to justify evil actions, which can never have any justification. And Heron is right, we are, in fact, allied with many countries that have poor human rights track records. And why have we done nothing to help the people in Darfur, where for sure real genocide is occuring? No one ever fights wars for moral reasons. Ever. The crusades had more to do with foreign trade and landless lords seeking riches and estates than religion. WWII, supposedly a war against evil Germany, was more about keeping the old European elites (and American) from falling to Germany. Most wars use moral justifications to sway the public and get people to fight, but that's never the real reason. The real reason is rich fucks trying to stay rich or get richer, or powerful fucks trying to stay in power or gain more power. But since no one would fight for either of those reasons, they have to give us bullshit like "bringing democracy" or "fighting a moral war against the evils of Nazism" or "ejecting the infidel Muslims from our Christian Holy Lands".
I wasnt implying that our reasons for going to war are completely pure. But regardless of what the United States will gain from this war we have put an end to mass slayings in Iraq by Saddam. That makes it worth it in my book
Why not put an ending to the mass slayings anywhere else though? Why just Saddam? Or, better yet, let Amnesty International worry about it, and we just make sure it doesnt happen here?
