Who wishes to no longer be a slave?

I would have thought that groupthink and collective consciousness would mean that anarchism is more viable.

I could be wrong as well. I don't really think that I know much at all about the nature of the masses. I just think that we should all live according to our own values as individuals and respect the right of others to do so, whatever follows follows. Maybe what we have IS the result. I don't know, but I will always advocate experimentation. We could argue about this forever.

 

i'm going to make this short because the cbf factor is just way too high.

The problem with promoting an anarachist system is it will fail inevitably for the same reasons a 'democracy' does. If every person had the right attitude for anarachy to work, then with that same attitude, there is no reason 'democracy' couldn't be a utopia either.

However democracy gives people a sense of order, and a system in which to work together, even with a bad attitude. Which is even more important when one considers international politics, people must consider a system that will survive the world, considering not every country might not be quite so radical.

As much as it is nice to think about the "good ol' days" when there weren't so many people, and one could truely have a free self sustaining family, times have changed. There are alot more people, and systems of trade every where. But even back when people did live as individual families, it wasnt much time before a tribe formed and the equivlant of "polis" adopted.

I'm not saying that the world doesn't have problems (alot of problems) but i think you're being idealistic. And i also think that your 'solution' of perceiving ourselves as slaves isn't helpful. If people believe they are slaves they will be slaves. If people believe they are free they will atleast try and be free, much as face eater put it. If people believe they are free they will demand what they believe are the rights of the free.

If anything, people need to alter their perception on what it is to be free, but the problem with idealism, is it also puts aside, that each person is not perfect, each person may have to deal with their own corruption, which could be any number of problems that holds them back from personal change, remember the system is made of beliefs and people.

 

you certainly got that right my brother from down under.

now I've seriously had enough of this thread and am about to go smoke a cigarette.

 

Thats one reason why i've tried to stay out of this thread, from the begining i could tell it was going to be a very opionated thread, it's hard not to be.

 

I think that you're right that perhaps what we have is the result of the conflicts between what people believe, because as everyone lives by their own values there is going to be a conflict of values.

I think in terms of advocating experimentation, it is important to note that society is not static. It is always changing, new ideas being adopted, old ideas thrown out.

 

I am always right. Still, I enjoyed it. I enjoy arguing if other people have not noticed. I am going to go smoke some cock.

 

Hells yeahs, son. You cannot fix what isn't broken. When society crumbles into "anarchy," you'll be on your knees praying for slavery again.

 

I wouldn't like to think so, but you could be right.

 

There are certain things which you must accept if you wish to function lawfully in society.

I have no problems accepting those. If I didn't I could find a way to opt out of society much more.

You're only as much of a slave as you allow yourself to be. You people can spout as many platitudes as you want, but this political diatribe is pretty weak.

 

I actually think our culture gives people more free reign to fuck up, treat other people like shit and encourages bad behavior, but it likes to trick us into thinking that it is a result of human nature, and as a result we still feel the need to be sheltered and protected by a minority in power.

Perhaps I am too utopian in my ideals, but a culture in which each individual is forced to take responsibility for the freedom of everyone, instead of a society where it is handed to us on a plate by higher powers, would probably force people to act better.

Again, I'm not going to preach these ideals to people, or ever believe that they are a definite responsibility, but I think that they should be goals. I am kind of tired of being surrounded by idiots and being an idiot myself because we have no real incentive to act like better people.

 

You know something, Face? You're a good man with a great take on our society. We are conditioned into believing that something is either entirely good, or entirely evil, when the truth lies in between all that nonsense. I mean, in America there are always two main ideologies, let's say, republicans and democrats. Neither side is correct at all, but one is needed to shape the other so that they can both exist in a symbiotic manner, you cannot have one without the other. These principles represent the balance of our universe. Either way, you're stuck in the middle of both extremes. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter which side of the fence you're camping on, what happened happened. After something happens, you have to go on from there, you can't change it, you must simply move on.

It's times like these I'm glad that it's all destiny, from the grandest of pictures to the most minute and intricate of details, it all must be the way it is. Life could not be possible if it wasn't already decided by the ticking hands of time, we are only here for the ride; whether you enjoy it or not is up to you to decide.

Don't get me wrong, destiny will put you through some serious shit sometimes. You'll find yourself with strange people, doing strange things, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I do believe my two cents are in, how's everything in your neck of the woods?

 

Just fine There is definitely value in appreciating what you have, and I think that whining about how oppressed you are is kind of depressing and self defeating, and I don't think it is the truth either.

 

Glad to hear it, my man. Yeah, I'm so tired of hearing people complain about their lives or our society, so if I sound a bit biased, it's because I am. You are correct about it being self defeating, if you have time to bitch, you have time to make you life better. So if you just sit around moaning all the time, you'll never fully actualize all the possibilities that stand before you.

And by the way, I <3 5318008 2!

 

Apathy is not a good thing. Apathy is what has gotten us to where we are. The idea that "there is nothing we can do, we might as well just go with the flow" has gotten us to where we are.

 

Yeah, I don't like the going with the flow thing either for that reason and can't be bothered talking too much about it because I am tired of arguing.

At the same time, I think there is value in going with the flow and being pragmatic (without being exploitative) because then you don't feel so limited and unable to achieve the things you want. I think the moment when you give society too much credit is the moment that it has won.

 

Where did I ever say that I'm apathetic? I don't believe apathy falls into my "life is perfect" belief system. As far as the flow is concerned, if you try to fight it, you're gonna become very apathetic, if you ask me.

My guess is that you don't believe in predestination, that's cool, I do.

I believe that E=MC^2 says everything.

Here's a thought, it's all meant to be the way it is and there's nothing you can do about it. Just a thought.

Namaste
Amen
Shalom.

 

A truly anarchist system will be a democracy. The "democracy" we all have today, on the other hand, is failing so badly that it is creating "anarchy".

Not everyone. Sadly democracy only seems to serve the wishes of the minority, predominantly the wealthy elite, because it has over stepped it remit and grown too large. It attempts to homogenise the global community into a new world order, but in doing so creates more disorder.

When people like me talk about anarchy, we are not romanticising about a world where everyone just goes about on their own, doing what they like. Everyone will have the right to pretty much to what they like, within reason, but small communities will form that will serve the interests of some and not others. Those whom it doesn't serve are free to live in another community that does serve their interests. This is a basic human right we have all had taken from us.

Idealistic is still better than being ridiculous, because that is what it means to adhere to the system of governance that we have today.

I don't perceive myself as a slave, I consider myself to be free. But the system treats me like a slave. It is not all in our heads as you seem to be trying to imply. It is very real.

The ones who still donot accept that they are slaves to the system are the ones who need to alter their perception, and open their minds.

It's all fine and well saying that there is no slavery if you are satisfied with your life, a lot of people are. BUt many are not, and if you happen to have been dealt a bad hand or you don't feel that you are living your life to your full potential, then you will soon see things differently. The ability to discern between freedom and slavery, in many cases, depends a lot on how open the persons mind is to what the alternative are.

It is also a fact, that although we in the western world can really complain about it, real slavery, I mean literally being held captive and made to work all day and not being fed properly is actual more prevalent today than it has ever been in history. This is what the modern capitalist system has done for the world.

 

Just out of interest, what sort of thing do you do for a living?

 

From wikipedia.

Economic coercion is when a controller of a vital resource uses his advantage to compel a person to do something he would not do if this resource were not monopolized. If someone is the owner of the only water supply, then the owner can compel the thirsty person to pay an exhorbitant price for that water or have him perform enormous labor. This is also referred to as a form of exploitation. It has been argued that as the global economy has expanded greatly in scope, economic coercion has replaced other forms of coercion such as coercion involving physical or military force.[1]
Economic coercion requires market power. In the above example, the coercer's refusal to supply the coercee would be meaningless if the coercee had access to other independent sources of supply. But the coercer can turn his conditional refusal into a vital threat only because of his coercive monopoly over an essential resource, with no other substitutes. In a competitive marketplace, the possibility of economic coercion is much reduced as suppliers are compelled by competition to accept less money or labor for their goods. The potential for economic coercion is one objection to using markets for organ transplants.[2]
An analogous result can also be obtained through pure monopsony power (where there is only one buyer as opposed to one seller in a monopoly). To reverse the above example, suppose that there are numerous independent suppliers of water, who sell it at a competition market price. If someone can only sell potatoes (to get money to buy water), and there is only one potato buyer he can sell to, then the buyer's simple conditional refusal to buy his potatoes would be a death threat, just as before.
The idea that monopoly control may facilitate coercion has been underlined by some business ethicists and economists. It shows that in some cases the social effects of market power goes beyond those on economic distribution and efficiency (economics).
The term economic coercion is also used within economics to refer to sanctions imposed by a powerful government or group of countries against another.