Will keep this strictly about spirituality, or I'd be here all night Who are you? Sage What is your way? Celtic Paganism with Germanic influences (or vice versa) And a bard, of sorts Why do you believe the way you do? Ultimatly it is what I feel makes sense, and connect to. I admire/connect to those values, and the strength of those warriors. Can certainly use it, way my life is panning out. I've been drawn to the Norse pantheon since I was girl, but have a big 'thing' about embracing your own culture/ancestry rather than ripping off other peoples'. So I tried to lead by example and stuck with the Welsh/Scottish ancestry I knew of. With hindsight I think it was my Saxon heritage calling out, because there are a lot of similiarities between Norse and Germanic Paganism (enough for an eleven year old not to tell them apart, lol). I'm not normally into mixing paths; but my blood is mixed up that way, and I wouldn't want to play favourites with my ancestors. Their paths do have a lot in common, so it's not really a stretch [though I won't be sticking Odin and Cerridwen in the same circle any time soon]. So I am quite comfortable going that root. I'm not going to claim my path is 'authentic' because frankly I can't even remember what I did on 31st October five years ago, let alone what my ancestors did centuries ago. Other things are just impractical, I cannot go lighting bonfires and driving cattle between them in a big city (awesome as it would be to try). Still try to do what seems right, and make do considering the limitations in knowledge and circumstance. Should think that was what my ancestors did too, so am sure they'll understand. Being an anal purist I'm tempted to say Neo-pagan; simply to show the differntiate between what I do in modern society and worship in 'the good old days'. that said neo-pagan has a lot of baggage, and in practise Pagan is just simpler. I would love to have been one of those bards of centuries ago. Might well have been, if past lives are true. Have always had a passion for writing and books, even before I was literate. Can't explain it, it's like a borderline mental condition. I'm not much of a poet, but apparently can tell a good story with flair. Traditionally bards are male of course, but the Gods wouldn't give us talents if they didn't want us to use them. So in the name of equal oppotunities I shall take them up on it.
I am....Mother, Lover, Child My way is....Ecclectic Pagan Why do I believe the way I do? I believe there is no "One True Way", my personal beliefs are taken from the best traits (in my opinion) of many beliefs. I believe it is more important to be a good person than to "say your prayers and go to church". The name of your god or goddess doesn't mean nearly as much to me as your actions. And I believe it because it feels right to me
Should I be disturbed that I don't know a concrete answer to any of those questions? I am whatever I feel at the time. My way is whatever I am compelled to be in at the time. I believe the way I do because nothing else makes sense to me.
Yeah, I do get that impression, or they're almost like Wiccans in denial. Of course there are many who are Pagan without being Wiccan, or are just outright Wiccan, which is all fine and dandy. Still it seems a common trend to start with neo-wicca, then graduate to something more, umm would authentic be the right word? Must confess I dabbled in neo-wicca for a while. Owing to the shocking prolificness of Silver Ravenworlf et all it's pretty much the first thing anyone comes across, and it does seem to be marketed as the only/mainstream form of Paganism [or perhaps I'm just missing something]. You have to take a lot of time and effort to get beyond that. It's not necessarily harmful and I'm sure works for a lot of people not to, but I just couldn't quite take to so many aspects (don't get me started on 'the rule of three'). Especially the pick & mix attitude*, that should be reserved for candy selection. So I felt it best to do some proper research and narrow the field. Maybe I'm still a little ecclectic, from various influences in the past. Seem to be growing out of it, which is pleasing. Still try to stick with the same roots/influences (ie my own) for consistency. Everything melds together so much better that way. Now I still admire other dieties and beliefs, but it doesn't quite feel right to be worshipping/practising them, they aren't 'mine' (ie that I have a rapport, am not claiming ownership). *As in... here's a table of Greek dieties, these are way to celebrate Samhain, oh and this is the world tree. Yes, these really are all in the same book, a pattern which is indeed repeated in several books. Oh wait have a better example (Solitary Witch#, Silver Ravenwolf, page 84), 'the maypole is the world tree'. ... No it fucking well isn't! That statement is wrong on way too many levels, in that the maypole and the world tree represent vety diffrent things and are from diffrent cultures. #Yes am very very profoundly ashamed to have read this, let alone paid good money for it. Would burn it, but that would be an insult to the trees. Besides mocking is more effcient with references.
Not to nit pick, cause I love you too much, but the maypole is German. BUT it isnt the world tree, its a dick. I love it when you have "________" wicca (fill in blank with Celtic, Druid, British, Scottish, Irish, German, Gypsy or any other descriptive word) and they all start with the same holidays, the same circle casting, the same rules, etc. What makes them any different? aside from the book cover. No matter what neopagan belief it is, it all relvolves around wicca. And wicca is the epitome of "ecclectic" pagan, cause all it does is steal and borrow from everything else. Most pagans didnt even know what ecclectic meant before they found Cunningham and Llleywen
Oh I see (awww love you too, in a platonic way) LOL very true. Was gonna go with 'phallic symbol', but then I'm an acedemic. Sometimes you do have to opt for simplicity. Yeah so true, big coincidence that all those cultures could have the same basis. Which they don't obviously, wicca is wicca. So yeah basically no diffrence. Yup totally agree Hmm probably right, then they back track and try to pretend it's all valid and whatever.
I am Justin I have a mixture of beliefs ranging from Buddhism to my Native American Beliefs. I feel a strong bond to nature and her beauty.
lol, well normally i would have gone with phallis too, but hey, its my thread so i felt free to say dick lol. And i'm an academic as well ya know, working towards a Phd =P But i do really love ya, platonic of course! I like what you say and how you say it. I like most about you is pride in your culture and respect for others. You're great.
Okay, so while I do of course stand by my answers above, I figure I could go more in depth. Anyway, my way is... Errr... Well basically exploring my own mind and just.. Yeah. My way is to seek to understand everything, most especially that which cannot be understood. I <3 the abstract Dunno when it started really, but ever since I've been quite small I've been interested in my own dreams and like lucid dreaming and such and just generally understanding myself and the realm of my mind. Now that I think of this I really don't know what the hell it has to do with paganism, besides that I suppose in some ways it fits within my 'way'.. But then, everything does.. Haha I suck at explaining. So please just refer to my previous answers, I believe they are best
Good Gods! Is there any way to say something that isn't going to be picked apart? I thought I explained my beliefs fairly well, but I guess maybe I was too vague. Just for the record, Webster's definition: pa·gan Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at [size=-1]PACT[/size] 1 : [size=-1]HEATHEN [/size]1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome) 2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person neo-pa·gan Pronunciation: -'pA-g&n Function: noun : a person who practices a contemporary form of paganism (as Wicca) I was a bit imprecise, I should have said Ecclectic Neo-Pagan, because I was raised to be a good little Catholic. I am not Wiccan, though if it soothes your oh-so-insecure need to categorize people, you can call me that. I did start out learning about the vast non-Christian world by learning about Wicca, but it was too limited. I studied, to the best of my ability, every culture's mythos and beliefs. I use in my life the things that ring true to me. I don't see this as a bad thing. I mock no one's beliefs, which is more than I can say for some of the people here. I've only met a handful of people in my life who were raised Pagan, in families who were never anything other than Pagan, and all of them were raised outside of the US. And to them, anyone else is a neo-Pagan. If you happen to be lucky enough to have that kind of background, you should have a little more sympathy for people who had to find out that there was a whole wide world out there that isn't monotheistic through inaccurate books, inaccurate movies, and inaccurate websites. If not, don't throw stones, because you're living in a glass house.
Hey, if it looks like a duck. Everything you said is wiccan. It would be like me saying "I love Jesus, my lord and savior, son of the one and only almighty god, but I'm not a Christian though, I am an Ecclectic Jew." Neo-pagan implies a new view on an old way, which is what Wicca, at best, is. It has nothing to do with how you were raised. If you were raised Wiccan by Wiccan parents, then you are still neopagan. Just like if your parents were Buddhist, but you converted to Christianity, you wouldnt be a Neo-Christian would you? New Paganism is modern paganism practices, not some one who is new to the old ways. Neopagan is a horseshit label anyway. Why arent there "NeoBuddhist" or NeoHindu"? OH yeah i forgot those religions arent cursed with the New Age fluffy bunnies, who are, well....neopagans.
There's nothing wrong with being Wiccan, or neo pagan, so long as one realizes it, and accepts it. Different strokes for different folks. My gripe comes when folks a)swipe stuff from my faith and put it in their religious stew. b)Swipe stuff from my faith while remaining, for all rights and purposes, fluff bunny Wiccan, and represent themselves as being of my faith. c)claim connection to "an ancient faith predating Christianity", when the stuff they're practicing was invented 50 years ago. All I ask is some honesty and consistency. I know some Wiccans who are great folks, who believe in what they do and that's great. I know some :Asatruar" who I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire and I'd just had a case of beer. I dislike dishonesty, even when it's unintentional, and directed towards ones'self. If people wouldn't lie to themselves so often, and learn to face the world as it is, we wouldn't have the problems we have in this country today.
Hell yeah Couldn't have put it better myself. If you don't like your beliefs being questioned/debated (we never truly attack) well then don't post about them. Freedom of speech well publicised, but you also have freedom of silence. We can all have a bit of friendly debate, it never gets beyond that here. Am very appreciative of people taking the time and effort to share their views and help me learn. So will try to extend that to others; even if it does just teach them creative ways to say 'fuck off' and mean it. Fair play. That's cool about the PHD, what are you studying? Awww thanks Totally ditto that about you
One thing about the fluffy movement is that if you ask one question about their beliefs, they think you are attacking their validity. They are really insecure in their beliefs it seems. Always calling attack or oppression. I just like to know why people believe how they do. I respect people who have strong beliefs, and can tell me about them. I love Fjolnirsson, i feel like he and I are brothers in our ways, and I love Sage because she knows what she is and knows why. I love people with strong faith. I know a Christian guy who is so in love with his faith and it shines man. He glows when he talks about Jesus. I personally dont believe the man ever existed, but this guy is high on some kind of divinity, and I dont care what he calls it. He knows what it is that makes him happy, and I admire that. I dont know many pagans that way, especially wiccans. If i ask why, or if i compare it to something else, dont cry about it. Just like you feel the humanistic right to pull from all faiths and cultures not your own, i feel the right to want to know why. Oh and Sage, i am in the early stages of my journey towards a PhD in Anthropology.
Totally agree with your sentiments They do seem way too defensive. Feel sorry for them really, it's not a good place to be mentally. The saddest thing is they get irate then retreat. The only way to learn and grow is to listen and stay open. Just don't be so open anything gets though, still have to be true to yourself and make solid choices. My biggest peeve ever is the fluffies bleeting about their oppression/attack/whatever. Now OK maybe pagans have had a bit of a hard time, but we aren't that badly off. We certainly aren't going to be carted of to work camps and gassed over it. If we were then I really doubt many of these 'ecclectic neo-pagans' would be prepared to stand by their faith to that degree [hell even I'd have to give it serious thought]. I've studied the holocaust, actually stood in Auschwitz; but even I cannot begin to comprehend their suffering, only that it is the truest of humanity. You not being able to wear a pentancle to school or whatever doesn't count as an iota of persecution in the face of that. Thank you, I do try. Still growing, will be for life, it's a fun journey. Yeah you just have to respect people with conviction. I have far more time for Mormons stood on street corners in the cold (though we will probably never agree on anything), than people who insist they're Christian but have nothing to back it up. Just fess up, the only crime is lying to yourself and the Gods. Oh I see, that's wonderful (saw your thread about your book idea). Good luck with it.
I'd almost like to believe that you nearly got my point, but no. I wasn't talking about Wiccans at all. I believe it was you who mentioned on another thread that Wicca is a made up religion. Never said it wasn't. All I can really say is that if you've never met anyone like I was talking about, you wouldn't understand. Couldn't agree with you more. I don't like it, and don't normally use it, but since I was the one who posted the dictionary definitions, I had to acknowledge the fact that by those definitions, I used the wrong word originally. Too true, course with a lot of cultures, if you truly practiced the old ways, here in the good ol' US of A, you'd get arrested pretty damn quick. Face it, in most cultures, the gods were pretty bloodthirsty. Almost every culture practiced some form of human sacrifice. Some required a willing victim, most didn't. I won't cite examples, because it makes for pretty gory reading in some cases. Needless to say, that wouldn't go over real well nowadays. Even animal sacrifice is seriously frowned on - practitioners of voudoun have to have permits to legally use chickens or goats for sacrifice. You said it, not me. Are you including your own beliefs in this? And what is your faith? After all, Pagan can cover a lot of ground. As far as swiping stuff from your faith, who exactly gave you ownership rights? Not to be argumentative, but modern Paganism is nothing but stuff swiped from someone's faith. Or are you excluding yourself from the bit about claiming a connection to an ancient faith? Why? Just because I think it's more important to try to be a good person than to worship the same gods I do? Forgive me if I don't see it. Could you explain? I didn't say anything about being attacked. I mentioned mockery. I say eclectic Pagan, heron says,"fluffy bunny Wiccan." Sounds like mockery to me. I also said: I was being slightly sarcastic. I enjoy explaining my beliefs most of the time. It's good to have to explain yourself once in a while, it keeps you honest. I do not, however, enjoy it when someone seems to be trying to make my beliefs out to be less important or less valid than his or her own. I get enough of that from my mother. And I'd like to add a question to heron's: How long have you been Pagan? For me it's 16 years.
