Discussion in 'Hinduism' started by Hari, Apr 19, 2007.
Krishna, Mahavishnu, or Brahma?
Let me add two more:
Shiva and Indra
actually, i feel its shiva... naturally shiva and his consort parvati since they are one
All are aspects of the one Brahman, and hence they are all one and the same.
Nevertheless devotees of each will be partial to their deity, like christians believe there is none superior to Christ or moslems Alla.
That would show the limitations of the realization of such devotees.
I agree with that, perhaps that's why I ask.
a single raindrop, with no pretentions of diety.
which is not to say i do not love the denizens of every heavin.
But, is a single drop superior?
no...in the heart one one who loves that single diety...that diety is superior...but I think its even better if that devotee knows that deep down all are the same...and that the diety they love is who the Ultimate expresses Him/Her self to attract the devotee's heart.
Superiority and inferiority are simply concepts of the mind. They arise due to Sriman Narayana's Maya.
Krishna is not superior and he is not inferior to anyone, because he is the source from which these things arise. He is the source of maya from which superiority and inferiority arise.
How can you judge something when it is the very source of judging itself?
That is not possible. So how do you answer your question?
That which seems superior to you because lord's maya acts such a way to show you it is superior is superior, that which seems inferior to you , because of lord's maya acts such a to show you is inferior, is inferior.
You may judge , I may judge, behind this all, Supreme lord is actually laughing at us.
Let me put it this way then...what is superior, the sun globe or a particular photon of light?t
That which seems superior to you, sun globe and sun light are independent of your notions of superiority and inferiority.
Vaishnava perspective: Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond good and evil, superior and inferior. You may say that he is most Good, most superior etc... but such descriptions do not come even close to describing Him.
He is indescribable, infinite... to understand Lord as being superior or inferior only shows our limited perspective. This applies to any form that is made by the Lord.
In a nutshell: Things are not superior because there is no such thing as superiority.
I'm not entirely positive of that, and usually it's dangerous to believe something not confirmed by scripture, specially about God.
"ahaḿ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaḿ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māḿ
I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.
"In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Nārāyaṇa. There was no Brahmā, no Śiva, no water, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun." (Mahā Upaniṣad 1)
prajāpatiḿ ca rudraḿ cāpy
aham eva sṛjāmi vai
tau hi māḿ na vijānīto
"The patriarchs, Śiva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy."
nārāyaṇaḥ paro devas
tasmāj jātaś caturmukhaḥ
tasmād rudro 'bhavad devaḥ
sa ca sarva-jñatāḿ gataḥ
"Nārāyaṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him Brahmā was born, from whom Śiva was born."
All these proclaim that narayana alone existed before creation.. creation includes all concepts, all things... everything....You cannot judge Him through Hierarchy , simply because he is the source of hierarchy, he is the source of judging... everything... emanated from him.
He is the cause.. but "cause" itself emanates from Him. whether you agree or not.. scriptures agree.
Srila Prabhupada says it this way:
Lord Kṛṣṇa is the source of all generations, and He is called the most efficient cause of everything. He says, "Because everything is born of Me, I am the original source of all. Everything is under Me; no one is above Me." There is no supreme controller other than Kṛṣṇa. One who understands Kṛṣṇa in such a way from a bona fide spiritual master, with references from Vedic literature, engages all his energy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and becomes a truly learned man. In comparison to him, all others, who do not know Kṛṣṇa properly, are but fools. Only a fool would consider Kṛṣṇa to be an ordinary man. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person should not be bewildered by fools; he should avoid all unauthorized commentaries and interpretations on Bhagavad-gītā and proceed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness with determination and firmness.
vedānāḿ sāma-vedo 'smi
devānām asmi vāsavaḥ
indriyāṇāḿ manaś cāsmi
bhūtānām asmi cetanā
Of the Vedas I am the Sāma Veda; of the demigods I am Indra, the king of heaven; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force [consciousness].
dyūtaḿ chalayatām asmi
tejas tejasvinām aham
jayo 'smi vyavasāyo 'smi
sattvaḿ sattvavatām aham
"I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong."
You should go to Mathura, or Sri kalahasti , in all those places... they will tell you the same thing- That you cannot judge the Supreme Lord, he is beyond these basic judgements of superiority or inferiority.
From the advaitin perspective, where can there be any question of superior or inferior when there is only One?
All these deities in their various stutis are described at some point or other as sat chid ananda swaroopa - of the nature of existence, consciousness and bliss. In essence all are one, any difference then is only in the physical plane.
Krishna has a body different from Rama different from Shiva different from Indra. But shastras repeatedly tell us to reject the body identification and to look into the self, and what is the self - sat chid ananda.
In the language of devotion, I may indeed love one form of the Lord above all else, but that does not mean that others are inferior. It is simply that they have not the same appeal to me.
In Bhagavatam Shiva and all deities serve Krishna and are his devotees. In Shiva Purana all deities including Krishna and Vishnu are his devotees and servants. In Devi Bhagavtam all serve the divine mother.
For the devotee of each, their ishta devata is the center of attention. But in the Ramayana, Rama worships Shiva, in Shiva purana, Shiva worships Rama! So the ishta devata gives full respect and devotion to the other deities, showing their oneness.
shivasya hridayam vishnuhu vishnor cha hridayam shivah
(Shiva is the heart of Vishnu and Vishnu is the heart of Shiva.)
Yes, so we cannot judge the Lord through our mental conceptions, because he is the Sat Chit Ananda vigraha
Don't know but every scripture I read above declares Krishna's superiority.
Am I the only one seeing that?
Separate names with a comma.