When is the psychedelic state possible without drugs?

What are your thoughts? Is it "enlightenment"? Something that takes a lifetime of commitment?

I was just thinking back to my last mushroom trip, on only .5 grams. I was in my room alone, reading Siddhartha, and I can't even express how beautiful it was. Anyone who has tripped will understand.

But the acceptance was so profound. I didn't experience "ego death" in the sense that I was removed from my physical body into space, but I could feel my ego subside. I wasn't concerned with all of "my" little things, but I still cared for everything, which included me. Everything seemed so natural, primitive, and free. When I think about the "brightness" of the whole atmosphere that night, I can't help but think there's something there, some potential for all of that naturally.

After all, drugs can only show us capabilities. There's such a link between the psychedelic experience and enlightenment, but of course the difference is in the practice and how it endures.

So what do you think? Are psychedelic drugs the only way to this awareness? Or do you think that there's too much put into the spiritual value of psychedelics?

I'm only asking out of curiosity, it has nothing to do with my question as to whether or not I'm pursuing any path, that I need to figure out myself.

 

In my opinion there is far too much weight put into the spiritual value of psychedelics. To me, they are beautiful, like art. That's it. How people go from art to religion is where I get lost.

I would also argue that they are quite different from enlightenment, and are at BEST, a temporary heightened state of consciousness that approaches some aspect of enlightenment.

True enlightenment does not need outside chemicals. It comes from within, and a hermit living in a cave who's never even heard of "drugs" can achieve it. That should tell you something about drug's roles in enlightenment.

 

I dont think there is too much value placed in psychedelics as potential for activating spiritual awareness, because everything is spiritual and vice versa. It's all in how you look approach it.
BHAGAVAD GITA
04.37
As the blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities.

04.38
In this world, there is nothing so sublime and pure as transcendental knowledge. Such knowledge is the mature fruit of all mysticism. And one who has achieved this enjoys the self with himself in due course of time.

I dont believe in such a state of enlightenment as anything related to the psychedelic state, other than the unfiltered awareness. Being totally aware, without having thoughts arise in the mind which attempt to gather the awareness, isolate it, and process it, would be what enlightenment is to me. Because, there are no words to describe it, and language through sound is what I believe generates the momentum of our universe. Om, to put it breifly. So whatever enlightenment is can not be explained or shared, since it is transcendent to the senses and the mind as a whole, but is rather experienced in a totality outside of the limitation of the self, as it embraces the Self of all.
Therefor psychedelics are just one more step on the path of Self knowledge and should be treated as such, no more or less worthy of being regarded as spiritual. If All is One then acceptance, as you experienced, IS the only approach that doesnt bind one to attachment, and would equate your experience to one of total Zen, Moksha, Enlightenment, Nirvana, etc.
When you see no difference, then you see the transcendent state where there is no spacetime, no laws, no reality other than a dream in which you play the role of a person who will wake up, sooner or later.
Namaste -

 

:cheers2:

My favorite book!

 

Same here, the Qur'an and the Gita are my two favorite spiritual texts

 

during deep meditation one is able to go out of body, it is similar to a psychedelic experience. it seems to me that psychedelics are tools, they don't put you in the psychedelic state per say, rather it is a tool that gives your brain process things in the correct way to bring you to this psychedelic (transcended) state of mind.

 

psychedelics are useful for temporary enlightenment, but to achieve true enlightenment you shouldn't rely on them. practice meditation or something.

 

The enlightened sate is a cultivated process. What i know to be silencing the internal dialogue. That is the natural process of the psychedelic experience or the shifting of the assemblage point or awareness. Without the aid of psychedelics and or cannabis. A path of purity is to be pursued. Which involves purity from negative influences and toxicity. That means to give up civilised life for natural wilderness experiences and a organic vegetarian diet. The practice of yoga to prepare the body and mind for the holding the full lotus pose with the mind indefinite. The raising of the kundalini through opening of the chakras in meditative, visualization, intonation exercises. Path working on the tree of life in meditation, visualization, intonation exercises. I belive the gita explains that we are in the age of kali and that achieving daily enlightenment through advanced metaphysical means is not possible a this time. Im going off memory of some sort of time when it explains the stage of concious evolution

 

Siddhartha, great book. That book opened my eyes more than psychedelics ever have.

 

we are already in light

now get on with the program!

 

Good thread

 

That book was the sole reason my trip turned out the way it did. Even sober it's so amazing.

But I do understand that drugs are temporary, which is my point exactly. This state that is temporary felt very natural, and I can't help but feel that there's potential for an enduring change of a similar nature.

I can't really put any "true" value on the actual effects of the drugs as they work on me, because I haven't made any changes since, but I did learn one thing from the possibility I was shown- that peace was the most pure experience I've ever had. I can only visit it on psychedelics, but I'm wondering what everyone thinks about committing to this path without the aid of any chemicals. Could you/would you do it? Have you considered it?

 

I have done it. I dont live it like I did the last years because of my hectic job and with a new baby on the way. But just today, I was speaking with an older, very wise person. He was calming me down and reminding me about the true search for God because I was going off about my mushroom peaks. After what he said to me, I suddenly heard the birds outside singing for the first time in days. Suddenly, the most peaceful sensation of acceptance and love I had ever experienced, much more powerful than from psychedelics, seemed to settle in from the sky and embrace everything. The trees felt like extensions of my own life, if that makes any sense. If I wasnt at work I would have been crying.
God bless

 

I only hope I can find peace sober someday, right now it just isn't working.

 

It's because you are looking for it.

 

I believe that the states induced by the psychotropics are sacred in that they can only be induced through the partaking of that particular sacrament. I remember from my mushroom trips which have been only a few profound experiences. It is a magical mindset. If you dont believe in magic you will have to change your perception to move on. Everytime I was able to partake of the mushrooms I learned the most rememberable lessons above all my entheogens. You will never be able to attain the ecstacy produced by mushrooms in any other fashion than to take mushrooms. As you grow older mushrooms acid and whatever seem to dissapear in the hands of the youth that rise up after you. The best feelings you are going to get from your life are by taking care of your physical body which is the temple/dwelling of your most innermost being/GOD. As one of our fellows said earlier. We already in the light. let go. Sidhartha went and traveled with the yogis and was led into the wilderness where he suffered from fasting and wandering in the unaldulterated wilderness. He had a vision of a cow or calf that died and decayed then came back to life over and over as he was doing in his condition. After that he gave up the religious lifestyle found a town which he worked for someone and ran the business. He succeeded in all he did and his boss shared much wealth with sidhartha . I believe he to was torn as both lives lived to the fullest still left a longing. Religion is a lifestyle. God lives within you. He is you deep down inside and if you open your mind then you will realize that you are him and you are the center of your universe. Every last detail of your knowing about anything is completely the way you want it. Your whole life you would have it no other way. That is the scariest part. Every war, book, and thing ever is because you want it to be that way deep down in some part of yourself.

 

Now we are getting somewhere. Unfortunatley this profound truth can only be experienced, and not spoken of outside of a sentence such as this one.
Thank you ancient powers, that sentence alone speaks more volumes than the totality of human discovery to one who understands.
God bless

 

Thank you relayer. I am one of your bigger fans. I appreciate the love. It is nice that a few people enjoy these forums and take the time to take the time to put good thoughts and sincerity into what is a small work of art. I feel I have already changed the world with my participation here at HIP. Thank you for looking after all of us here on the fringe of psychedelia.

 

It's my pleasure and an honor to moderate these forums. I admit, I am just as confused as the next person about what all of this means, but I like running into the storm with eyes wide open :cheers2:
Surely, we are on the verge of profoundly incomparable realization, and it's fun to be a bunch of monkeys help usher it in
Nature seems to be creating brains in order to experience itself in fragment potential

 

What are your thoughts? Is it "enlightenment"? Something that takes a lifetime of commitment?

I havent finished with this thread. I did want to get an answer in on this subject since I have subscribed to every damn idea I could get into on the subject. Why do we want to become enlightened or transcend. Is it to be a better person or to get gain that better people get when there better? Do we want to transcend because we do not like the life we live? We do not remember being asked to be born. Our situation might seem hopeless. Pandoras box has already been opened. I seen the dead do it at a shoreline concert. All I know now is Im older than 31 today. Am married with two kids. I have my own business and sit at home most of the time watching kids. Having kids makes it harder to do whatever you want. Its hard to do what you really want anyways. I am living the life I want. I am learning volumes about neo~shamanic alchemy and everything else I wanted to know about. Much of the casteneda stuff I studied in my twenties is making sense to me now. People can be the real poison and disease that infects the planet and each other. The shamans or spirit men are healers that are taught by the plants and spirits. Righteous people trust in what they believe to be GOD in whatever form or name the cosmic spirit reveals. What is truth? language is invented. If you couldn't understand language even the most intelligent person would sound like an ape making noise out of his mouth. My belief is to smoke bud daily, pray for your forgiveness, your healing and your enemies, read your scriptures and books to learn, Love your neighbor as yourself and love the lord YOUR god with all your heart and soul. That is the whole of the law. and that takes a lifetime of commitment.